♪♪ good day. i'm jose diaz-balart back with you for another hour. andrea mitchell is on assignment. we are keeping watch on the manhattan courthouse where the jury is back in the courtroom and donald trump's defense team is starting cross-examination of a key witness in the former president's first criminal trial. the questions towards stormy daniels' former attorney. earlier today, a second gag order hearing for additional alleged violations after judge merchan found trump in context tuesday and warned the only way to deter further violations might be jail time.

the state insisting it's not what they are after in hopes of keeping disruptions to a minimum. the first violations were done on social media on his campaign website. we begin this hour with nbc's yasmin vasiljevs and jeffrey sloman. what's the latest from inside the court? >> the question going into this was, what was the purpose of davidson's testimony when it comes to the prosecution? that was setting up the purpose, the context of how this payoff went through. now we are into the cross.

we are seeing this strategy emerge here, that is understanding that davidson had no conversation and/or link and/or history and/or relationship with former president donald trump. i say this because, davidson says, i have had no personal interaction with president trump. i'm a friend with dillon howard for over a decade. how did you meet? i'm not sure. was it in connection with your work? davidson says, i believe so. that's in reference to davidson's relationship with dillon howard. however, honing in on -- zooming in on here the lack of a relationship that davidson has with the former president -- this is because of what was inferred throughout the testimony, along with in the indictment as well, which is that donald trump was behind michael cohen arranging the payments for mcdougal and daniels. davidson saying in his testimony that he believed that michael

cohen was acting on behalf of donald trump. the defense is trying to set up the fact that davidson would not necessarily know that, considering he doesn't have a relationship or history, jose, with donald trump. >> you spent the morning in the overflow room watching a feed of the trial. describe what you saw. >> i think there are two substantive things. there was the quote of the day. the substantive thing you started was the gag order where the judge clearly, i think, is going to find that donald trump is in violation of the gag order yet again involving the jury. the judge seemed exercised by that particular set of comments by the former president. he reserved decision. but i think we probably can anticipate that at least with

respect to that one allegation, he is going to find yet another gag order violation. the state has sought just a $1,000 fine. that's the maximum fine under the particular statute. as to the substance, i think the key fact that came out for the prosecution this morning is where davidson texts dylan howard on the late night, early morning of the presidential election when it's clear that donald trump has won. he texts dylan howard essentially, my god, what have we done? when asked to explain that, he says, i understood that what we had been doing, meaning with respect to the doorman, with respect to mcdaniel, with respect to mcdougal and stormy daniels, that was being done to help the former president win the election. i think that's the most damning

piece of evidence. the quote of the day was where stormy daniels issues through davidson a statement that is a denial of having what is referred to as a romantic sexual relationship with donald trump. there are two separate denials. davidson was asked, what would you say about the truthfulness of that statement, and he says, no one has ever said that their relationship was either a relationship or romantic. saying essentially, it was just a one-night stand. it was technically and literally true if not terribly misleading. as a lawyer, i'm not sure any of it came off looking that well with that explanation. >> tell us about the former president's demeanor.

how has he been today? >> he seemed very impasimpassiv. you couldn't get a really good look from where i was because the camera is very focused on the witness stand, on the exhibits, and on the defense lawyer. one of the things i understand is that this is very much like trials that go on day in and day out, many of the trials that i used to do, whether civil or criminal. it's a very controlled courtroom. there are no histrionics. that was true even with respect to the gag order arguments. in many ways, my big take home is that it's a shame the public cannot either see this through video or having at least the audio to just understand how normal this is and how this is really what you want in a system of justice. you are stuck with people like me reporting on this afterwards.

it really is a quite normal scene inside the courtroom. >> i'm happy to have this with you. jeffrey, andrew is talking about just how normal and everyday this is in what is, however, one of the most unusual environments you could conceive of. >> that's right. that's why we go back to the granular detail of the documents, of the text messages, detail of the timing. all these other things which we all focus in on. what was the former president's demeanor? what's the courtroom? what's the juror -- the jurors will get it when they see the chronology, when they see the information that needed to be prepared for the transfer of the money.

as mundane as that is. it goes from michael cohen's second mortgage to an llc. from the llc to mr. davidson's trust account. these are the way these crimes or in this case these coverups were committed. it's very mundane. >> now they're going into what are pseudonyms and what are the people that have some relationship with the people -- davidson specifically, like gina rodriguez, it's granular as jeffrey says to a technical degree. >> it is. gina rodriguez is a talent agent that represented stormy daniels who referred stormy daniels to davidson. hence the reason, she became a part of his roster of clients. there's also some back and forth when it comes to michael cohen's

state of mind. davidson saying, i thought michael cohen was going to kill himself. the degree to which he was committed to making sure this story did not, in fact, leak. i have to say, when it comes to gina rodriguez and the relationship they talked about with davidson, you had a reciprocal referral business where she sent you clients and vice versa. davidson said, i didn't try to. she was contacted by the district attorney's office. they wanted her to come in and give a statement and she contacted me. the relationship with rodriguez and you in 2023 is such she trusted you to be her counsel. davidson said, true. they used davidson to admit when he was retained by stormy

daniels in 2011 to help take down this blog post on the dirty.com, that retention was not reduced to writing and there was nothing wrong with that. lisa is saying, expect them to come back to that in closing to highlight that the absence of an agreement, a retainer agreement between cohen and donald trump is not in and of itself proof of anything and that trump was paying cohen for legal services. if you remember, there was no retainer agreement between donald trump and michael cohen, which is central to this indictment that was levelled by the manhattan d.a. and central to the trial in this case now and will likely come up. davidson admitted there was no retainer as well between davidson and stormy daniels when she became one of his clients. >> meanwhile, the prosecution is

building a time line. it's calling witnesses in chronological order. will they way to call in cohen and daniels? >> you know, the big question that yasmin was getting at is, the state has done such a good job of proving why you should care and also why this is a form of election fraud. all of that has come out loud and clear from mr. pecker and even with respect to mr. davidson saying, look at what we have done and sort of a sense of regret. all of that goes to the fact that this is election fraud. what remains to be proved is putting the false business records, either in the hands of or with knowledge of the former president to show that he was aware that there were false business records that misrepresented the reimbursement of michael cohen of the $130,000

that he put up to silence stormy daniels. i think after davidson, there will certainly be witnesses that are connective tissue, smaller witnesses, i think everyone is waiting for the witnesses like michael cohen and witnesses who can testify about the former president's actions in signing checks when he was actually the president, which the state says are the reimbursement payments. >> i understand we are having the first bench meeting of the day in the courtroom, just about two minute ago. it was called for. if you could for us, just kind of lift up a little bit and remind us what the prosecution's role is and responsibility in convincing jury members who

aren't seeped in the details of law and what is or is not legal, what's the big picture for today's hearing? >> you have to remember what it is that the state has to prove. it is alleged false business records. so you have to show that there were business records that were false. that means that donald trump had to know that. that's the key thing. then they also have to show it was part of this election scheme. the election scheme part is -- that is, i think, something where we have heard a lot of evidence on that. the false business records and showing donald trump was aware that there were false business records, which misrepresented the repayment to michael cohen as legal fees, when it really was just a reimbursement of his hush money payments, that is something that's still to come.

what i would say to everyone is, let's wait. these are brick by brick the state proves the case. having done these trials from the inside, i was always struck by the news coverage. everyone wants the story everywhere awe at once so they can understand the full picture. we're not going to get that until summations. then we will hear how well the state has done and also whether the defense has been able to poke holes in that story. there's a lot to come with respect to this. the final thing, which the state -- big, big picture needs to show a jury -- it's not legally required. why should you care? why is this something that we as a jury should really be taking seriously? they have an oath as jurors to take everything seriously. it's always good to have a sense of why this is an important matter. i have to say, sitting in the courtroom, hearing about this

world of fake contracts, fake names, spreading false information about political adversarys, killing stories that would damage a candidate, faking news essentially to help someone get elected, if that doesn't get jurors thinking this is an important case, i don't know what would. there's an enormous sleaze factor. they said the fake denials -- he had to say technically, under strict sense maybe legally they are true, but it was absolutely clear to everyone in that courtroom that they were intended to mislead and to give the impression that there was no sexual encounter between ms. daniels and the former president when, in fact, there was. it's a very sleazy story, both

in terms of the sexual nature of the case but also the import of the case which was about the election and getting donald trump elected according to the state's own witnesses. >> yasmin, fake news, fake contracts, fake denials. then also, just, i guess, fake names, too. >> right. what's interesting that i think that i'm seeing happen inside the courtroom right now is establishing the idea these are things that happen with situations like this. this is not -- this is not specific to the former president. this is not specific to michael cohen. i say that because of what i spoke about earlier and jumping off of what andrew was talking about in. the retainer agreement, which i mentioned earlier. poking holes in the fact that there was no retainer agreement

between stormy daniels and davidson when she retained him. when it comes to the pseudonyms. we talked about dennison. peggy peterson. the argument made by the prosecution, why would you use pseudonyms if you have nothing to cover up? if there was nothing nefarious, this hush money payment, if there was nothing nefarious, why would you use a pseudonym? a question asked, peggy peterson, that was your idea? davidson says, that was not my idea. it's widely used in these types of deals. this is the back and forth. asking these questions, trying to poke holes in the prosecution's argument and saying, these contracts, these pseudonyms, these names that are used are par the course for these types of agreements.

>> jeffrey, you were talking about granular and andrew is talking about brick by brick, which is what has to happen in a court case. how do you think the building is going? >> i'm not there. andrew is there. other people are there. from the reporting that i'm reading is that the state is accomplishing both goals, making it interesting, taking what would normally be just a dry case about false records and getting the jury to care. it seems that that's happening. it seems that the witnesses like mr. davidson and others, who -- mr. pecker, really make a dry topic extremely interesting. >> thank you very much. we will check in with you again throughout this hour. up next, the politics of the

trial unfolding in manhattan for both former president trump and president biden. a live report from ucla after a chaotic scene overnight with police entering an encampment set up by pro-palestinian protesters. we are back in 60 seconds. you are watching "jose diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. and more treats. more of everything they love, delivered right to your door. only with chewy. what if you could go from this to this. with just one step tresemmé silk serum. time for the ultimate humidity test. weightlessly smooth hair your turn. new tresemmé keratin smooth collection. ah, these bills are crazy. she has no idea she's sitting on a goldmine. well she doesn't know that if she owns a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more she can sell all or

part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com. 20 past the hour. while donald trump is back in court today, the former president took advantage of yesterday's trial break to travel to wisconsin and michigan for campaign rallies. they were his first campaign events outside of new york since the trial began. top campaign staff have been joining the former president in court with senior advisor jason miller, among others standing by him recently. joining us from outside the courthouse is vaughn hillyard and ashley parker. vaughn, on tuesday, eric trump

joined his father in court. other allies, including ken paxton was there as well. why have they not been there before? why are they there now? >> reporter: the first two weeks were quite lonesome for donald trump in the courtroom outside of his legal defense team. no family members, no political allies outside of one advisor a day. that's where tuesday was different with eric trump there as well as the texas attorney general. david mcinintosh, a conservativ group that donald trump had an icy relationship, but ultimately came back to donald trump when it was apparent he was going to become the nominee. both of those men spoke with reporters on behalf of donald trump and stoking the idea that this is a political persecution, being targeted at the presumptive republican nominee. today is different. there's no family member here.

there are no apparent surrogates here. the question for donald trump is, who is going to be the one really running that pr campaign for him? he has bemoaned he is not able to attack witnesses and this jury. while members of congress who have long been allied with him have been cooped up on capitol hill because of their obligations of legislating, he has been alone here. over the next weeks, will that change? >> ashley, when it comes to the trump world, what are the allies hoping to get from joining the former president in the courtroom? >> this has been, as we have reported and perhaps understandably, a deeply unpleasant experience for the former president. he has come out and complained about it. he talked about being too cold. how freezing the courtroom is. how difficult to have to sit upright that entire time.

donald trump is someone who loves being in control, the center of attention. that's why he often doesn't leave his property. whether he is on the patio of mar-a-lago or in trump tower, he can control everything from how his steak is cooked to the play list and volume of the play list. this is an uncomfortable situation for him. the process is the punishment. they have been trying to organize dinners for him, distractions. having people and allies there is a little bit of a creature comfort for someone like donald trump. >> ashley, when you say he controls the playlist and the volume, that's very specific, something he actually does at mar-a-lago when he is there at dinner. >> that's absolutely right. all people -- all politicians,

they enjoy being in charge. donald trump, to an extreme degree, to the point where when he travels, as vaughn knows, he almost always tries to return to one of his gilded homes that evening. if he has to stay in a hotel, he is very picky. he likes holiday inn, because they have light colored floors. it's easier to see the dirt. he is a germaphobe. this is one of the first times we have seen him out of control. the judge dictates what he shows up, what he can do, when he can go to the bathroom, when there's breaks, even what he can say. it's proving incredibly challenging for him. >> such an interesting discussion. i think, vaughn, you have actually traveled -- you certainly go to a lot of his rallies, but you have been on his plane a few times.

not exactly welcomed with opened arms. think about how the difference of his life is because of this court case. >> reporter: right. let's be clear, he attempted to move away from new york city so he could spend time in mar-a-lago or bedminister. now he has taken up residency in midtown manhattan, which i don't think most folks would blink at having to stay at the penthouse he calls home. when he travels around on his plane, which has light-colored carpet, that's a moment for him it's traveling like the president of the united states on air force i. his plane is on the tarmac. he doesn't have go through security screening. this is, for him, in many ways consuming of his time.

he has to be at this courthouse by 9:00 a.m. every morning. he wants to plan stops around manhattan, but those have to come either at the sunrise or sunset. he has gotten used to over the course of decades controlling the schedule of his life. that's what is so difficult about a criminal trial is that he has to be here or else he was threatened with being arrested if he didn't show up here. for the first time, even when he was at the white house, the schedule is dictated by somebody other than donald trump, either president or ceo of the trump organization. >> vaughn hillyard and ashley parker, thank you both so very much. appreciate it. up next, president biden weighs in on the unrest on college campuses, including ucla after overnight clashes with police and protesters. we will go back to the courthouse as well for an update on today's proceedings. you are watching "jose diaz-balart reports" on msnbc.

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31 past the hour. we are continuing to monitor former president trump's trial in new york. we are also following the campus protests. last hour, president biden addressed the demonstrations. >> it's against the law. dissent must never lead to disorder or denying the rights of others so students can finish

their college education. it's basically a matter of fairness. it's a matter of what's right. there's the right to protest. but not the right to cause chaos. >> it comes after more than 100 protesters were arrested at the university of california los angeles after police cleared a pro-palestinian encampment. steve patterson is at ucla with the latest. mike memoli is in washington, d.c. for us today. mike, what else did the president have to say? >> reporter: in terms of the substance of what we heard from president biden a few hours ago, it wasn't very different from what we have been hearing in the form of paper statements or at the briefing room from the white house spokespersons. there's no substitute for hearing it directly from the president of the united states himself. there had been growing calls from the president's allies to take a more force full public posture. the president saying, we are not authoritarian, but said neither

are we a lawless country. dissent can never lead to disorder. the president also acknowledging the politics are inescapable here. it's not a time to score political points. he tried to deliver a clear message about both the right for the demonstrators to have their voice heard but not to disrupt the lives of many others on the campuses. we heard from donald trump, the republican nominee, on the campaign trail yesterday putting the onus on biden to speak out as he did today. blaming for him some of this as well as some of those we have seen on college campuses. the president says it's his job to remind the country of the disorder, the chaos that we saw during the trump administration, including those protests after the death of george floyd. it was just about four years ago, we saw donald trump cross lafayette park behind me here. that famous moment where he held the bible up in front of st. john's church. that's something president biden

wanted to remind people of in terms of the political discussion as we focus on this issue. >> steve, what are we hearing from protesters? are they planning to return there? we have to remember that those protesters at ucla were, before the police came in, attacked. attacked with clubs and sticks. it became very violent there as well. >> reporter: yeah, it did. i will be honest with you. i haven't had a chance to talk to protesters. i have pre-protest. they said from minute one that they would be back no matter what. they would continue the fight throughout the police action, throughout the counter-protesting. they are serious about their message. they believe that their message was one that was worth fighting for. i want to show you what's happening behind me right now. this is something i never thought i would see, which is cleanup. look at this. this is what is left of the area where the protesters set up camp for about a week or so.

the tents piled. this is getting cleaned up incredibly fast. almost extraordinarily fast. almost as fast as police tore it down to make room to sanitize it and then to, of course, restore some normalcy to students. that was the objective from the university, to try to get the sense of normalcy back to the student body, to get this ora of safety back on campus. as far as protesters coming back, that's of course a danger here. i think we are awaiting to hear what the university, by way of the administration, by way of the state, what their plan is if they want another protest here. part of the reason why it was here in the first place is because of the uc system. ucla specifically welcomes protesting. they want people to have a free space do that. we're not sure if that's the case after what we just witnessed. >> steve patterson and mike memoli, thank you very much.

i want to go back to new york city. yasmin is just outside the courthouse. inside the courthouse, yasmin, they are going at it. >> reporter: they are very much going at it. it seems as if the lawyer is trying to discredit davidson, talking about his seedy past when it comes to many of his clients leading up to representing mcdougal and daniels. i'm going to read you through for a moment the back and forth between them. also at one point, they certainly raise their voices as well. they talk about hulk hogan saying, isn't it a fact that in connection with events in 2012, you were investigated by state and federal authorities, extortion of hulk hogan? davidson says, that's true. by 2016, you had familiarized yourself with where that line was. you did everything you could to get as close to the line without crossing it. davidson says, i did everything i could to make sure my

activities were lawful. they talk about lindsay lohan, you represented someone who leaked treatment of her at a rehab facility. you had connections with tmz at the time. davidson says, yes, i did. you helped miss holland get paid in connection with that, with the lindsay lohan story. davidson said, i don't recall. she was your client at some point. davidson says, yes. you are describing a few different instances. then there's a point in which they become more contentious saying, fair to say your memory is a little fuzzy around many of these events? davidson says, i had over 1,500 clients in my career. goes on to say, i don't remember a settlement from 13 years ago. do you remember extracting another settlement from mr. sheen? davidson says, there was no extraction. you got him to pay. we are both lawyers.

i'm not here to play lawyer games with you. he says, i'm just asking for truthful answers. you are getting truthful answers, sir. i'm not going to discuss confidential matters. i'm not invoking privilege. if you are not here to play legal games, then don't say extract. there's a lot of back and forth. i will say, i think this is something that we predicted.is attorneys to discredit davidson and things he is saying on the stand leading up to what he said earlier and saying that donald trump in fact directed michael cohen. this is all to chip away at how the jury sees and views davidson's testimony on that stand. >> boy, oh, boy, things have

gotten more heated inside that courtroom. i want to bring back former fbi general counsel andrew weissmann and jessica levenson. andrew, we are talking about hulk hogan and sheen and privileged communications and what is attorney/client privilege with this. bring us up to the importance of all of this from the defense's perspective. >> what yasmin reported that is going on right now in the courtroom and will go on until about 1:00 when they break for lunch is fascinating. this is why. a normal defense cross of this witness would really just start and end with the fact that this witness has no direct dealings

with donald trump. everything that he knows is through other people, primarily michael cohen. what davidson testified to on direct examination is so corroborated in documents, texts, emails that it was remarkable to me sitting in the courtroom today just how much the prosecutor was tieing him to specific documents that make it absolutely incontrovertible. they are attacking him in terms of his credibility instead of saying, you don't know anything about my client. you wonder what's up here. the answer may be from the opening of the defense where they basically were saying that there's some kind of private side deal that was entered into between cohen and davidson and maybe dylan howard. they are trying to set up davidson as a fall guy.

that will be an interesting strategy. interesting why you would take that strategy when there's an easier way to say he doesn't have direct evidence about the false business records. fascinating. i think it's to try to set up another person who could have done this, not being the president. >> this is -- jessica, i'm learning something every day. the privilege of my lifetime do this and learn something every day about all kinds of things. i, for example, in this one -- i wasn't aware there were people whose jobs were sex tape brokers and that you got paid if you got a sex tape released and if you didn't release it. i'm wondering, how do you see this going on this aspect of it for the bigger picture, which is

what the prosecution is alleging the former president was involved? . >> i think it's somewhat of a sideshow. andrew made good points about what you would as a defense attorney typically do in a situation like this. just to try to use davidson to say that the former president wasn't directly involved, to try and get him to separate trump from the allegations that are at issue here. these the name of the game for the defense, period. which is to say, we're talking about a transaction between michael cohen and davidson who was collecting the money for stormy daniels and that trump was not a key player. instead, they're going through this fairly complicated cross where they are trying to dirty up davidson. i agree with andrew that it seems like they are trying to set up a different fall guy, not the former president. i think part of it is also just to try and sully davidson in the

jury's mind here. bringing up these purportedly unsavory clients and to try and make it sound like he is the type of person who might, as andrew said, enter into a side deal that maybe is not best for his client but, in fact, is best for him. we don't know if the defense -- sorry. >> no, no. continue. >> we don't know if the defense is going to be able to tie this theory up into a bow or if it's just something that they want to kind of plant in the minds of the jurors. again, what you typically is just a very short cross of davidson, because he really is there just to corroborate some of the documents that are already in. there's not a lot of standalone testimony here. >> i don't know if they will tie it up in a bow or videotape. jeffrey, this part where he is going at davidson by saying, did you or did you not provide

information to dylan howard to break news about the content of one of the tapes? i presume he is talking about a sex tape. he says, did the fbi run a sting operation targeting your meetings with hulk hogan? davidson said, yes. they set up a meeting where someone was recording what you were saying in coordination. this was investigated by local authorities. davidson is now having to defend himself for things that were related to unrelated cases in this case. sex tapes and more. it's time to go into the credibility of davidson. >> from what i have read -- i'm not there. but from what i have read, i think the defense lawyers for mr. trump may not be utilizing

strategy that they normally would. they have an audience. they have a client who i think is involved in the strategy and wants what i think mr. trump has referred to before as his lawyers being killers. i think that's what he wants. he wants to destroy witnesses and feels that that is a good strategy. we will see whether it is a good strategy or not. as andrew mentioned, keith davidson's testimony is corroborated every which way. it would be great, i guess, from mr. trump's perspective, i want to dirty this guy up and go into the sordid details of his practice, which is, i think, foreign to the other lawyers on this segment. i don't know too many lawyers

who participate or whose practice is involved in this type of legal area. apparently, there is. whatever. that's, in my mind, a little bit irrelevant to the issues in the case. >> we are getting color from inside the courtroom. davidson is smiling through some of the questioning, sitting forward. again, now they are talking about a boxer and something he was -- a legal cause that he had against a network. andrew, it's almost as though -- we have talked about this in the past, about how the prosecution has to present witnesses for its case that aren't all -- i don't know -- sisters of charity.

>> yes. absolutely. that is an argument that is one you will hear, and that's a very typical argument from the prosec prosecutors, whether federal or state, which is they did not choose these witnesses. the witnesses are on the stand because the defendant was dealing with them. you are going to hear that come back in spades when michael cohen is on the stand. the prosecution is going to say, look, we would love to present rabbis and priests and nuns to you, but you know what? that's not the perp who was dealing with hush money payments with stormy daniels on behalf of the defendant. again, it's really worth noting just how unseemly this world is. you heard a glimpse of from davidson and also you heard from david pecker last week. the nature of having somebody who ran a media outlet -- i

won't say journalism, but a media outlet where he is saying, our job was to foment fake stories against adversaries of a political candidate and promote fake stories that were positive with respect to the candidate. the underbelly shown here is remarkable. it's a very interesting strategy to go after this witness when everything he said on direct is corroborated. it doesn't make a lot of sense. obviously, the defense has a strategy. we will see how that plays out. it may end up being that this is a lot of theater but not with a lot of substance behind it. >> yeah. that underbelly, that dark and dirty underbelly which is prevalent in a lot of different places, it's just now when you see it in writing or see what it is that they're doing and they

have been doing, it really does show a lot of -- it mixes up a lot of sewage. jessica, maybe the mixing up of all of this sewage, could it have potentially a -- create a distraction that the jury is so focused on this aspect of it and maybe take away from the central issues in this case? >> maybe. i want to emphasize something that i wish i had said originally and you just had a discussion about, which is i think a lot of this is client control or lack of client control. which is that the former president, we know, really likes to direct his attorneys. frankly, i don't think it's always based on an understanding of the legal system or an understanding of what's best for the case. instead, it's an understanding that those who support him need to fight, fight, fight and be loyal, loyal, loyal. i think we see part of that in

his defense team and their approach to really fighting documents and evidence that should just be let in. i think for trump -- the idea is, my attorneys need to be killers. they need to be aggressive on everything. as everybody on this panel knows, that is not always the way to best serve your client. to your question, which i think is a good question, could this be a sideshow for the jury? maybe that's what he is going for. i think what he is saying is, go after davidson. i'm not sure there is a concerted theory, other than the one that andrew mentioned and that we talked about before which is maybe set up a different fall guy. i think what we do need to do is have faith when the jurors go back to that room and they look at the jury instructions, that they realize that there really may not be a lot there when it comes to davidson. because, again, unlike, i think, michael cohen, you still have

everything that's corroborated without him that's going to be in evidence. >> thank you so much. after a break, what's being done to try and keep a proposed hostage and cease fire deal between israel and hamas from falling apart. you're watching "josé diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. ée diaz-balart reports" on msnbc. why do we even buy napkins? use tide. can cold water clean white socks? it can with tide. do i need to pretreat guacamole? not with tide. this is chocolate, right? -just use... -tide...yeah. no matter who's doing it, on what cycle, or in what temperature, tide works. so i can focus on all the other questions. do crabs have eyebrows? ahh... for all of life's laundry questions, it's got to be tide. ♪ you were always so dedicated... ♪ we worked hard to build up the shop, save for college and our retirement. but we got there,

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and it's yours free just for calling, so call now for free information. 53 past the hour, we are keeping an eye on former president trump's hush money trial, but we are also following another major story. israel believes hamas will respond to a cease fire proposal today. an israeli official told nbc news, the current keel calls for hamas to release 33 hostages in exchange for a 40-day cease fire and includes the release of palestinian prisoners. secretary of state blinken arrived back in the u.s. after meeting with prime minister benjamin netanyahu where he

urged israel to put off a military operation in rafah, also told hamas to accept the proposal on the table. nbc's raf sanchez joins us from tel aviv. what's the latest on the proposed deal? any movement at all? >> reporter: israel has been waiting all day for a hamas response to this proposal, a proposal that the united states says is extraordinarily generous and a proposal the u.s. says if hamas would agree to would lead to an immediate cease fire in gaza. it is now just short of 8:00 p.m. and there has not been a definitive response. israel's war cabinet is meeting as we speak. in the last hour since we spoke, jose, john kirby, the spokesman for the national security council at the white house was asked whether the u.s. thinks that hamas's response is coming today. he said flatly, the u.s. does not know at this point. now, we did get a statement from hamas earlier on. they said the political leader

of the group had spoken to the head of egyptian intelligence and committed to him that hamas negotiators would come to egypt as soon as possible to complete the ongoing discussions with the aim of maturing an agreement. now, jose, i've read a lot of hamas statements since october 7th. that is vaguely positive in tone in the sense that, one, they feel that there is enough worth talking about that they're going back to cairo, and two, that they are talking about the possibility of completing an agreement. but it does also suggest that hamas may not give a definitive answer one way or another until that meeting in cairo happens. we heard from prime minister benjamin netanyahu earlier on today. he acknowledged that there are divisions in his governments about whether to move ahead with this deal or whether to move ahead with an attack on rafah where israel says hamas's remaining battalions are hiding. just to illustrate those divisions, in just the last hour the far right minister of

national security has called for the defense minister to be fired. >> raf sanchez in tel aviv, thank you. that wraps up the hour for me. i'm josé diaz-balart. you can watch clips from these shows on youtube at msnbc.com/jdb. thank you for the privilege of your time. chris jansing picks up with more news after a short break. h more news after a short break which attack bugs' biological systems. it wipes cleanly, plus is safe for use around people and pets. gotcha! zevo. people-friendly. bug-deadly. (ella) fashion moves fast. gotcha! setting trends is our business. we need to scale with customer demand... in real time. (jen) so we partner with verizon. their solution for us? a private 5g network. (ella) we now get more control of production, efficiencies, and greater agility. (marquis) with a custom private 5g network. our customers get what they want, when they want it. (jen) now we're even smarter and ready for what's next.

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good day, i'm chris jansing live at msnbc headquarters in new york city. it may be donald trump's hush money trial, but all day long it's been the michael cohen show, with testimony pointing to cohen over and over at the heart of schemes to protect his boss. but the lawyer for stormy daniels and karen mcdougal testifying today that, in fact, he believed trump was behind the payoffs. the defense trying to argue he doesn't know whats