central witness in the key and all this is every single person that's come up. sarah is basically they didn't didn't like michael cohen and it's like you don't really get a witness that's more disliked before the person's really come on. come on the stand and, you know that the jury greene is taking note of this, i find i like jens take and their strategy in this. what do you think sort of beyond being disliked, he has a lot of baggage michael cohen has been untruthful before that has been proven. >> and so the da's office has to counter that here's why they're raising this very careful foundation of these other witnesses for stronger for them, who will or as jennifer said, corroborating michael cohen even before he testifies. >> all right. sir. acrysof, jennifer rodgers, are thanks to both of you. this has been cnn news central cnn's coverage of donald trump on trial begins

right now cnn stories this hour on opposite coasts of the united states of america and los angeles police are making scores of arrests as they swept through and antifa the war in camp man in the heart of ucla's campus. i'm taking tapper washington. you're watching sports, cnn special live coverage and i'm kaitlyn collins in new york mark where in minutes donald trump's hush money trial is going to resume. >> my weeks ago, we saw the former president of the united states walking back into court where he has no choice but to sit and listen two witnesses tell a story in which he is the main character and for which he could potentially end up in prison soon. keith davidson, who was the former attorney for the adult film star actress and director stormy david. stormy daniels will go back under the oath in minutes. the judges also going to hold a hearing to consider if the former president has again violated

his gag order for me more times. >> so you will be able to see on the left hand of your screen minute by minute updates from our reporters inside the courthouse. there it is. even as we go live to the breaking news out of los angeles where we are again seeing tensions hit a tipping points seen and teams are on the ground and watching as police in los angeles load arrested student protesters and perhaps others onto buses cnn's camila bernal has been at ucla all morning as police moved in to dismantle the campus encampment, i think at roughly 1:00 a.m. pacific time, compelled to tell us what's happening now hey, jake, just moments ago, we're hearing more flash bangs. we had not heard these flash bangs in a while and it's unclear exactly where they're coming from, but it is clear that this is still very active there are many, many law enforcement officers still on the scene. >> this is the current focus. >> next to the encampment. what you're seeing is a group of protesters who were still

shouting and screaming at police officers, still talking about divestment, still talking about the fact that they want to be heard and that they're hoping that they are allowed to remain here. they're telling chp with this loudspeaker that they have been beating children. that is the language that they had been using towards these police officers. and it's hard to see from where i am, but the group is large you're right in that area where the protesters are stairs going down. so we believed that that group is a lot bigger than what you're seeing on your screen. again, it is just a line of police officers in riot gear. they had been here all morning and we saw them in circle this in camp get meant just to show you where the encampment is. i'm going to turn around and show you what they cleared. this is the area that police officers cleared. this morning using those flash bangs and essentially coming in through all sides of the encampment.

men two then horner all of those protesters into one area. they tried holding hands and linking arms to try to stay together and avoid arrest but one by one, every single protester that was inside of this encampment was arrested by law enforcement. they were taken to nearby buses, which actually i still see a bus right now. >> so it's unclear if they're going to continue arresting people, but we do know that the people inside of the encampment had been detained and taken to those buses. >> and so again, the focus has now shifted to this area, which is still very much an active seen jake all right. camila bernal at the campus of ucla earlier this morning, roughly 1:00 a.m. pacific time were told police came in to take down the encampment their of the anti-israeli anti-war protesters will continue to check back on that scene as well as college campuses throughout the country. >> but let us turn now back to what's going on in the courtroom, which is what

kaitlan collins, why don't you handle that yeah. >> jake just to get you up to speed, just in those few moments there as we were hearing what's happening on ususally tlas campus, donald trump has entered the courtroom. prosecutors are there the jury's not yet in there because what is happening right now is prosecutors are making their case that donald trump has violated his gag order. four more times. they are now going through this the judge they'll make their arguments and then trump's defense team will get up to make their arguments. we'll see last time it didn't go so well for them because the judge did find that he had violated it nine times for instances are now up for discussion. question i'm here with our chief legal affairs correspondent, paula reid and karen friedman, agnifilo, who is the former chief assistant district attorney, in the manhattan da's office. i should note karen is of counsel for a firm that represents michael cohen, but she doesn't have any contact with them. she doesn't work on his case. there's no restrictions on what she can say as we're focusing on what trump can potentially say on whether or not he's violated his gag order i should note the first alleged violation is over trump's statement that was related to the jury when he

commented and said the jury was picked so fast that was 95% democrats, paula, obviously, a statement that trump made with no base he says, but it does prevent him in this gag order from commenting or directing other people to comment on the juror. >> yeah. this is arguably the most serious alleged violation because anything that was scare the jury away from you coming in doing their job, that is really at the heart of what the gag order is meant to protect people who are just doing their jobs are complying with their civic duty. now, in addition to this alleged violation, there's three others that there alleging and all of these occurred before the trump find hit the judge fine to trump $9,000 a last week to the other two are two statements that are highly critical of michael cohen. and then another ambiguous statement about david pecker where he says he's been really nice. i know some people could say, well, what's wrong with that, but you could interpret that sort of intimidating in some contexts, which is why you have a gag order all right. now the prosecutors are saying that the gag order was issued because of trump's persistence, attacks on the protected folks under the gag order goes on to say

that trump, you use this is his platform here to criticize the jury seated in this case. and again, i think this is the most serious of the four alleged violations and the one that is gonna be the most difficult for his lawyers to defend. yeah. thank karen. we're seeing this picture. this is trump in court today. every day we get a photo of him as he enters the room. i can tell you i was in the room the other de it makes a big difference to actually be in the room and to. watch all of this happening until you see, you know, what americans aren't seeing by not being able to go into the room. i mean, the public can but it's a very limited amount of people. but, but on this front, jury is not in the room as this hearing is happening, but this is important here because the jurors had been at the forefront of wanting to keep them anonymous, but also to keep them safe from threats they are weighing this case. and the prosecution is now moving on to what paul was just mentioning there when he commented on that first witness, david pecker. >> yeah. so for the judge, the jury talking about the jury protecting the jury as policy, that's like the third rail, right? that's it's one thing to talk about michael cohen, who often criticizes trump and

trump is we'll say he's reacting to that. it's another thing though, to talk about the jury in any way. so i think what we're going to see here is you're going to see the judge not only hold him in contempt, but he's the more important thing is he's going to really admonish him and say do it again at your own peril and look right now, that's what exactly the prosecutions arguing they say he knows what he's doing, that he's talking about the witness who was testifying, david pecker, and saying, well, he's night, so they're basically saying it's not just what he criticizes the witness even when he says something nice. i mean, that's we actually have the four moments that are at the heart of this hearing right now. i just want everyone to feel to listen to what trump has been saying about the witnesses and to his comments about the jury as well and what are they going to look at all the lives that did the last trial? >> he got caught lying in the last trial so he got caught lying, pure lime and what are they going to look at that

that's yuri was pick so fast, 95% democrats the areas, mostly all democrat. you think of it as just a purely democrat area? it's a very unfair situation that i can tell you. >> my goal cohen is a convicted liar and he's got no credibility whatsoever. >> he was a lawyer and you rely on your lawyers so far david's been very nice and nice guy that comment that you heard there about michael cohen is exactly what is being discussed at this minute inside that courtroom as prosecutors are pointing to that and saying paula, that the defendant they say believes that the rule should be different for him yeah. >> they they do actually argue that they argue because he is a candidate for the white house, that anything he says is protected political speech and entitled to heightened protections that he should be able to punch back against people want like michael cohen who have made a career out of attacking campus so far that has not been a winning argument in this court, but i will say over the past week or so, we

have seen trump even before he was fine and even threatened with jail by the judge. we have seen him back off of the prolific violations of the gag gag order. instead, he goes after the district attorney, alvin bragg, which is fine. he goes after the judge constantly, including yesterday, but instead, he's pivoting to having his allies attack some of the folks who are covered by the gag order. now we're learning that trump is leaning over and whispering to his attorney, todd blanche. it's prosecutors will lay out the alleged violations of the gag order and you'll remember the last time we were in court for a gag order hearing. i mean, this did not go well for the defense. they tried to make those constitutional arguments and that's not what the judge wanted to hear. sure. he wanted to go post by post. now, the prosecutor says cohen and his credibility are a theme for chomp. >> yes, that is absolutely not is absolutely it's a theme for the whole case, like nobody but it seems the judge seemed to suggest in that ruling that i finding that trump did violated that. >> maybe it won't always apply to michael cohen because michael cohen has been out there. he has been speaking in publicly and very critical of

trump and saying these things that trump's team has argued, okay, he should be able to respond to this and karen, what they're raising right now is when trump spoke to the cameras outside of the courtroom on april 22, the moment that you just saw there trump was campaigning last night and i was listening to his remarks in michigan, i believe is where it was. and they're talking about how trump is able to speak outside the courtroom about michael cohen, who is expected to be a witness here and expected testified. trump was saying he can't talk about this case at all, but he was on camera talking about the case at a rally. he is allowed to talk about the case he just can't attack witnesses or the other prosecutors on alvin bragg's team that we can still dr. alvin bragg himself exactly the judge just says, look, you can talk about the case as much as you want. >> you could campaign mean as much as you want. just can't intimidate witnesses intimidate the jury. that's where the judge has to keep control of his courtroom and the trial so that and he can't do that. and that's what he's doing here. and i think michael cohen preemptively said last week he's no longer going to

comment on on this trial, on donald trump, and i think as you you pointed out in the gag order decision last time the judge specifically said, look, this is designed to protect witnesses, but but if witnesses go after you, then it might be fair game for you to respond. i think you're going to see that todd blanche is slightly more prepared this time, then the last one because todd blanche is an excellent attorney, is a really good reputation and they're making a point right now that a lot of this has to do with the timing they're saying that this is the most critical time the time that the proceeding has to be protected because that's really what did the harb that is paula is a concern that the judge has made clear. he also shares that trump's speaking out can affect this trial, that it could disrupt this trial, whether that's a witness or a juror absolutely. >> particularly when it comes to the jury, if you have some instance that creates a situation where jurors, a critical mass of them don't feel safe coming in. if you don't have those 12. and the

defense likely would never agree to do it with just a latin. you could have a mistrial that's why that common of all of them are the most concerning. now, they're saying that the problem prosecutor saying that trump's statements are corrosive to the proceeding and the fair administration of justice and that is the spirit of why you have a gag order sound to prevent him for speaking to violate his constitutional digital rights. it's to protect the integrity of the process. >> well, i was in the courtroom the other day and you see these jurors come in. they don't make eye contact with trump, and i should know, obviously we're not going to describe them, but there's 12 jurors who sit in there. they're paying rapt attention to what is happening in these proceedings are watching very closely. you can tell they take their jobs very seriously here. republic duties here, and i should note, the prosecutors are making the argument, pushing back on what you were just saying. todd blanche is defense could be the same. michael cohen is not donald trump's political opponent. he's the witness in this case because they've been arguing trump should be able to speak out, but they're saying it's not like you can't talk about joe biden. he is talking about michael cohen. >> the other prosecutors now

saying that the defendants trying to make this bot politics, but it's really about criminal conduct. and. they want to focus on the criminal conduct of the trial and have this jury render a verdict, whatever it is and the jury can't be worried about their safety they can't be worried about them, their identity being outed or the order verdict being second-guessed because people know who they are, that's that's really upsetting if the jury greek can't focus on the trial and the evidence that they have to worry about themselves. that's distracting. and it actually can properly, in fact, the jury's deliberation. so the judge is going to do everything they can to protect against that. and that's why he's not going to allow trump to comment on the jury at all. >> it's so interesting, polo, when the jury leaves the room for the brakes or when the day's over, none of them make eye contact with donald trump. they they love to him twice when i was in there and they just they filed right past donald trump his defense team at the table, and also the prosecutors, but they don't make any eye contact. >> that's fine. that's

fascinating to me. i mean, he can be intimidating, but it just speaks to like you said, how seriously either taking this, they're not looking to curry favor with him or get his attention. now this argument though, from the prosecutor's right now that he's trying to make this case about politics. i mean, let's just be frank. this case is about politics. it's about allegedly interfering with it. an election, you have an elected district attorney sector suggested he would go after trump. now, we have another update, the prosecutor says trump's attorney assured the judge last week that president trump does. in fact know what the gag order allows him to do i'm not allow him to do. and again, the alleged violations we're dealing with today happened about ten days ten days ago, and they're not seeking jail time. they're making that clear. they're just they want those $1,000 fines, which is interesting because the judge was lamenting that he could not charge he could not find trump more in this case because he acknowledged it doesn't really make a big difference to trump to find them $9,000 will continue to see what the judge decides here as this hearing is going on, whether or not donald trump has violated his gag order four more times trump's attorney

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at cardia.com or amazon i'm omar jimenez at columbia university in this is cnn welcome back to cnn special live coverage of donald trump's hush money cover up prior to the prosecution says they are not seeking jail time yet for the alleged violations of the judge's gag order on mr. trump government attorneys, prosecutors also say krepp is doing everything think he can to make this case about

politics when it is not necessarily all about politics, trump's defense attorney just raised comments that president biden made get about the case at the white house correspondents dinner. >> we are here with our panel and just to go into what is going on exactly in the courtroom right now. right now, they are having the hearing on the gag order. the judge is considering for other alleged offenses that the prosecution says are times that mr. trump violated the gag order by attacking the jury or attacking witnesses, especially michael cohen and the judge is hearing arguments from todd blanche, who is trump's mean attorney and blanche is arguing that michael cohen is attacking trump. and joe biden is attacking trump and he should be allowed to respond to these attacks. judge merchan is reiterating the trump can't discuss foreseeable trial witnesses. he can respond to anything biden says can can, but not michael cohen and elie

honig. what exactly is the argument that trump attorney todd blanche is making right now when it comes to why it's okay for trump to make these comments that the prosecution says these four new comments you'd already been found guilty of violating nine previous comments of violations of the gag order. why is he saying it's okay for these comments? >> so todd blanche is making the just responding defense, and that is a viable defense. the first set of hearings that we had, the judge found there were ten alleged violations. the judge found that nine of them had occurred where in fact violations, but the one that the judge said, i do not find a violation. he said, i find was not a violation because trump was responding to an attack by michael cohen. there was some statement michael cohen made. trump had reach truth it and then attack michael cohen. so the judge has left the door open for trump to respond, but the question now being raised is, how specific does the response has to v doesn't have to be michael cohen made this statement against me. now, i will attack him on the basis that statement or it can be more broad as todd blanche seemingly start doing right now. well, joe biden made these

comments about the trial at the white house correspondents association. therefore, trump is entitled to respond. so trump's attorney, todd blanche, right now is seizing on the judge's order earlier this week that suggested some of the witnesses. i suspect he's mainly thinking get michael cohen might be using the gag order against mr. trump as a sword and a shield. in other words, dana bash, michael cohen taking advantage of the fact that trump is not allowed to legally attack him, to attack them, although i should note, i think last week michael cohen announced that he was going to stop talking about the case on social media and on his podcast, the new supplemental materials are in response to judge merchan's order on tuesday holding trump in contempt for the other nine gag order violation. >> yeah. and you're right. our colleagues in new york, we're making that exact point about michael cohen unilaterally saying, i'm not going to engage i just also want to go back as we look for new updates to what blanche trump's attorneys said about joe biden. it was noteworthy that president biden, really for the first time he did it cloaked in

humor because it was at the white house correspondents dinner for the first time you went there? on the trial and he talked about stormy weather, and that was clearly what blanche was referring to when he said that the current president referred to a potential witness also noteworthy that we just heard from the judge explicitly that when it comes to the campaign trail, if joe biden does that again, trump can respond i mean, it maybe seems obvious, but when you have a former president and somebody who is on trial, saying that he can't speak, and the judge explicitly saying you can write when it's on the campaign trail and when at your political opponent. that's on the record now, although we should note david urban, we should note also the todd blanch trump's attorneys arguing that trump's comments on david pecker the tabloid magnate sidestepped the question about his testimony trump gave a very factual and neutral answer. this is one of the four alleged violations in which trump said that mr.

packer was being nice and was being nice. blanche says that trump's comments about pecker, we're not a warning or a commentary on what pecker would said the prosecution said that trump saying that david pecker was being nice, was basically trump along the lines of a mobster saying it's a nice place you got here, it'd be a shame if anything happened to it and it kind of like a veiled warning. and mr. blanche is saying that's preposterous. he was just saying he's nice. neutral statement. >> yeah. i mean, this is the play-by-play, the blow by blow is so very interesting to me and i'm just having to think, what are those jurors sitting there listening this right? sorry go on the gag order? on the gag order? >> yes, there you go it's just the american people. >> it's just the jury pennsylvania so exactly. >> to the people out in the real-world thing they get lost in all this. it's just like loss in the back-and-forth and i think overall, when when when elie points out the, you know, kind of asked and answered response, right? well, if

you're attack, you can attack back and i saw last night that michael cohen was live streaming again, right? so i don't i didn't watch it, but i so he was doing it. i think i didn't know you were subscriber judge merchan basically said that it's not just about mr. pecker, it's about what other witnesses might be discerning when trump talks about mr. pecker, roshan saying i express concerns about mr. cohen and his daniels and my decision. those are valid plant by inch arguing of trump. he can't just say no comment repeatedly. so he's running for president, which is another argument. >> and so i just think the real-world right, gets lost. this is getting lost on everybody. it's so in the weeds it's really, really granular and it just a lot of white noise to america and i think americans and you'd walk up to 70 and safe if michael cohen's punch and trump in the face, can't eat, why can you? hunchback? and that's the argument that trump, i think seems to be making that maybe sticking a bit. i don't think anybody thinks that he should be able to attack the judge or the prosecutor, or other witnesses. but michael cohen seems different here. first so

judge marchand is saying there are no surprise that when it comes to the media coverage in minutes, we may soon get a ruling from the bench on whether donald trump broke a gag order for additional times. >> we're going to have much more from reporters and sayyed corn. you're watching cnn special live coverage the trump hush money trial, gavel to gavel coverage, the weight only cnn can bring it to you. >> legal insight, expert analysis, and real-time updates, live from the court follow the facts, follow the testimony, follows cnn allergies with allegro. >> they won't stop me nothing beats allegro. it's the fastest non drowsy 24 hour allergy relief live your greatness. future is not just going to happen. you have to make it and

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whether the defendants, the former president of the united states, broke a gag order that he had issued for additional times. you're watching cnn special live coverage. judge, were sean pointedly saying moments ago that mr. trump does not have to speak to reporters when he walks in and out. of course, that's his choice and a choice that raises his exposure to penalties when he crossed as the leinz outlining what he can say and cannot say my panel is back here with me and kasie hunt todd, blanche, trump's attorney right now saying that michael cohen is making comments about trump that are personal attacks on his character, mocking him for being on trial, and also his candidacy for president of the united states. unquote. so he's basically saying it's not fair to say that donald trump can respond. yes, this guy is a witness, but he's out there, beaten the snot out of my client every day one way to put it and that's the clean version. >> michael cohen has. i think it seems recognized that potentially he's in a different

position because it come out and said, okay, i'm not going to say anymore of these things now that we're this far because i mean, i'll be honest, i think all of us sitting here can tell the difference between a michael cohen, who is a public figure in his own right, who went to cotton lied to congress basically on donald trump's behalf, was part of his inner circle, went to prison, et cetera very much cuts a different figure than the jury especially, which is the other one on this list that i think is actually one of the more interesting things that could come out of this, because we haven't seen that as well as even some of these other witnesses that at are not as front and center in the public eye. killing. can we just talk about what's behind intimidation when what the judge is worried about here is that when donald trump says these things some of his followers or people might act upon them. that's why at the very least, death rats and perhaps even worse, right? >> that's why jurors are worried. i don't i'm not excusing what michael cohen is

saying, but i don't think there is the same level of concern that people who are going to rally behind michael cohen two to intimidate trump. one other thing about donald trump, which we have known for years and years he, as a friend of his said to me, he doesn't just get up every morning and decide he's going to punch someone. he gets up every morning and decides who is he going to todd blanche on trump's attorney is right now showing the judge, one of michael cohen's retweet it's not tweets, but retweets from april 8, as well as a post from michael cohen and april 14 where michael cohen post a photo of trump in an orange jumps jumpsuit, not a a real photo of two trump in an orange jumpsuit, either. >> let's call it ai, perhaps, but elliott limbs? >> yeah generally speaking, if mr. trump we're not running for president of the united states, this would be pretty open and shut. who cares? you just have to take it, right.

but there is an argument here that donald trump's running for president and his first amendment rights when it comes to responding to attacks need to be respected. absolutely. and this is partly why they are hammering these michael cohen points. so so aggressively wait, because of the fact that these are probably of the four arguments. the strongest one that the trump team has, it's someone who is in some measure going back and forth with the foreign presence. okay. i apologize for this update ahead of time, a boy, but blanche todd blanche trump, attorney, is specifically reading a post and michael cohen we made on twitter on april 22. and when in which he refers to donald trump as von shitzinpantz that is just a factual record that i'm bringing before you this is in the court transcript von shitzinpantz. blanche also said, there are repeated attacks on trump in his candidacy on cohen's podcast and tiktok account, dana bash, i know you want to weigh in on von shitzinpantz i think did it on behalf, taking care record.

>> i have been calling it von poops and parents are weeks now, but now it's a part of the official transcript i do think that when it comes to just the rob politics of this, the argument that donald trump is making out in the world, not just when he comes into court and when he leaves court, but when he's on social media, when he's at his rallies about i'm gagged. i can't speak. when you look at this, which should say he can speak about the judge, he can speak broadly about a lot of things. it's very narrow what the gag order is about, but it does include michael cohen because michael cohen will be a witness. and when michael cohen makes very clearly political statements against donald trump, it gives donald trump a much more credible political argument saying, this is ridiculous that i can spoke speak. blanche just showed articles, quote and cohen quote, talking extensively about trump's presidential campaign that's the point i was making earlier, right? >> it doesn't matter that there's a legal aspect to

this. >> and then there's the political aspect to it. and the political aspect is trump is every rally from now to election day. he's going to talk about this if michael cohen is out there just just it's punch in and punch in a way and, you know acted like beavis and bud head. and there's going to be retribution from the president in terms of response. now, this is not von shitzinpantz. >> goes to one, one second coming right back to la todd and shows the two additional articles about michael cohen attacking mr. trump, judge merchan dropped some saying you made your point. i made your point. >> all i was going to say is something interesting in the gag order, but the judge said having resolved the question for the first time retweets can count as speech or statements for the purposes of the gag order, one of the ones that was just quoted with michael cohen re-tweeting something about donald trump will be interested thank to see how the judge handles that, saying that knot bunch had some pants, but i think this one's another account that was critical of trump and he retweets, but i

think you're also saying suggestively that retweets do constituted.ink you're also say suggestively that retweets do constituted. let's has said nightly. >> and literally making money. >> so there is some hope that we can emerge from this mac. the timing is important here. the for alleged violations that are being heard right now, they all happen early last week, donald trump is now gone world's record, eight or nine days without a specific civic violation, but blood todd blanche is saying of michael cohen. yeah, this is not a man who needs protection from the gag order. in other in other words, this is not karen mcdougal being quiet in her life or even stormy daniels, who's being relatively quiet these days. this is somebody who's out there throwing punches, seeking the limelight, goes to casey's point from

earlier, there's a real question of who's vulnerable and who's not. you started it. well, you then you're opening yourself up to attacks and the jury always has to be number one. you saying comment and one of the four comments at issue right now, how's about the jury completely unacceptable. i think the judge is going to snack that. oh, here we go. the judge asked trump's attorney to address the comments that the former president made about the jury. >> this this is the question about donald trump saying that 95% of the jury are democrats right? an assertion that he has absolutely no basis, in fact for making, although manhattan is generally regarded as a fairly liberal area to live he does not know the political leanings of the gerry plan says, we very much believe this is a political persecution. the judge cuts him off saying, did he violate the gag order? >> yeah. yes or no. >> if i may blanche right before that told the judge it was only 15 seconds of a 20-minute interviews, which has nothing on this one here, he has a plausible defense on michael cohen just striking back, but comments about the jury and let's remember these

comments were made the jury was seated, so he's no longer talking hypothetically or about hundreds of people in a jury pool. it's talking about these 18, 12 plus six alternates. these 18 people, the judge's definitely going to focus on that. and let's also note that when you talk about jamie, what national security experts referred to as stochastic terrorism in which is another words a politician says, oh my god, i hate barbers. and then all of a sudden his followers start beating, beating up barbers that stochastic terrorism you never gave a direct order to do it, but you create an environment that's unsafe. michael cohen's one thing. he's out there throwing punches, his right tiktoks. these jurors want to be anonymous and we have already had juror is expressed the fear that they are going to be ousted. >> want to see one of the left trump's minions on fox were out there like talking about how one juror or shouldn't be on the jury. >> trump right now leaning back in his chair with his hands clasped in front of them, as attorney argues, he didn't violate the gag order, but this is one of the concerns about the jury, and i think it's probably more more of

treacherous terrain for short, trump then michael cohen, casey yeah. >> i mean, i think that that's absolutely right. and, you know, it's it seems very as much the way that todd blanche doesn't have anything to say seems to say everything in terms of the jury you just said it very well. elie, right tabulations have anything on this and it seems like this is why. and in some ways i'd be interested now, if trump, he made this one comment. it was part of this really long interview it was something i thought i might hear more from him, but i do wonder if behind the scenes they said, hey, you can't do this because it's a very trumpian thing to do. he does this generally speaking across the board with the travails they want policies play that's argues that trump didn't single out any specific. that is when he made an overarching statement about that's ridiculous. it's a

group, but just to follow up on what casey said, i think it is also important to remember that donald trump pushes the envelope. this is his mo he's been doing this january 6. there we have seen real time results when he goes home after people. >> one other point, the ones are interrupted, but blanches reiterating that cohen should not be protected by the gag order. blanche is just making the argument there. i like just the did it makes no sense for your gag order to protect michael cohen, judge marchand is wrapping the hearing. let's take five minutes. he says, before we bring the jury in he says before leaving the bench, let's take five minutes is not a bad idea. let's take five minutes right now. not five really, just a few. we're going to squeeze in a quick break. we'll be right more with more coverage of donald trump's hush-money cover up trial. you're watching cnn stay with us a florida man is hospitalized, infected with anthrax sunday this became the

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happened happens. serve pro i'm caitlin polantz at the federal court in washington, and this is cnn welcome back to cnn's special live coverage. any moment now, the jury is going to enter that courtroom. you see there on the right and testimony will pick up in donald trump's hush money cover up, criminal trial. right now, the former president is inside that courtroom and so far, the morning is focused on on whether he violated that gag order. again, after he was found to have violated it nine times. now at question or for more instances where donald trump has commented on witnesses or the jury the hearing just ended, but judge merchan did not yet rule from the bench, so we are still waiting to see what his decision here will be. >> back with me now is my panel, karen friedman, agnifilo, and paula reid and karen, what we're about to see after just a very brief break

in the courtroom is keith davidson is going to get back on the stand. >> and how tuesday ended was keith davidson, the former attorney for stormy daniels and karen mcdougal, who helped negotiate their payments he's going to get back on the stand and the line of questioning on tuesday when they stopped, was about that stormy daniels payment and donald trumping at the heart of it, as he argued, and also his interactions with michael cohen when you read, go back and read the transcripts of his testimony from tuesday, you can start to see the defense is starting to take shape by what they're objecting to and what they're not objecting to. >> and really what the defense i think their strategy is. they're not going to attack whether these things happened because of course it did, right? of course there were payments made to stormy daniels. what they're trying to do is distance trump from that and so they're gonna make it all about michael cohen. but somehow michael cohen orchestrated this. michael cohen is the one who if there was a campaign finance violation, it was him. if those false business and those

records that was michael cohen thing that you're only dealt with michael cohen. you've never dealt with donald trump, and that somehow this was just all by michael cohen who was trying to curry favor with trump or something and maybe get a position in the white house, whatever it is that's what it seems like they're doing. they're not going to dispute the facts. they're just going to say trump had nothing to do with all michael. >> we are told across of michael cohen or excuse me, keith davidson is expected to be pretty lengthy from trump's team, but what's funny about how the prosecutor, prosecutors are handling this is michael cohen's obviously the star witness here, but they've kind of been letting the witnesses make fun of him. i mean, there was a moment on tuesday where everyone in the courtroom laughed to the jurors and attorneys from both sides when keith davidson testified that nobody wanted to talk to michael cohen, no one wants to deal with him. it doug mile difficult if he was to deal with yeah. >> one thing that everybody agrees on is that no one has anything nice to say about michael cohen? that is a real problem for the prosecutors when he's your star witness. so that's what they have to work to really buttress what

he's going to say. but keith davidson testimony is so critical because he's the one who personally received stormy daniels hush money directly from michael cohen and you can hear it through his testimony that he believed that his client really had a good opportunity hey, here to make some money, but he believed in the wake of the access hollywood tape, he said that there was renewed interest in her story. >> so that that is certainly good for the defense's argument, right? >> perhaps this was opportunistic, but he's also clear that he knows that suppressing the story will help trump in the election. and that of course off the prosecutors and keith davidson is back on the stand right now under questioning from prosecutors. i was in the courtroom on tuesday. he's a really compelling witness. keith davidson has this thing that he does or when the prosecutors asked him a question, sometimes i'll look at them directly, but often he turns to the jury and speaks directly to those 12 jurors who were sitting there paying close attention. and often taking notes, looking at the screens in front of them as the evidence in the text messages are being presented at any comes across as genuine,

maybe certainly involved in some unseemly dealings. but telling the story of his negotiations with michael cohen and with donald trump and davidson, we should note just glanced into the galleries. he walked to the witness stand. trump has a stack of papers that he shuffling. i should note the witness walks in front of trump's political team, but behind trump at the defense table, we also have former new york state retired new york state supreme court justice joe kahn visor, who were this and judge, just as you're watching all of this, i mean, the question is still hanging open. how the judge is going to handle potentially for more violations to this gag order i think you're going to see much of what you've already seen, which is a very measured response from judge marchand. >> he's going to review the arguments and make his decision on his timeline. you saw in the first-order that he handily rejected every one, but one every charge, but one would that the people did not prove

beyond a reasonable doubt from his perspective and handily rejected all the defendants arguments from re-posting to first amendment to sort of selective enforcement here, i expect he will take his time continuing to be measured and reasonable well, and i should note the jury is back in the courtroom. >> they weren't in the courtroom for that hearing earlier today. one question that karen a good point that she made earlier was why not just have everyone gagged the witnesses here? why should they i mean, i understand, you know, they're not the ones who are under indictment here. we're facing these charges. but but is that not a reasonable point for the judge to consider? >> i don't know that that's reasonable. there's one defendant in this case and it's donald trump. and the gag order applies to him, but you're right. there is a bigger picture here, which is that the integrity of the process must be maintained. and

that is of paramount importance. horton's here to the court and it should be two, all of us i can pretty much guarantee that the da's office called up michael cohen and gave him a tongue lashing and said stand down, stop, it. you're not helping things. so in a very unusual circumstance, the judge probably could do that. i don't see that we've gotten to that point, but you did see in the decision that judge merchan wrote that he talked about witnesses and he talked about whether or not a witness can use this order as a shield and a sword saying, listen, you people, you want me to hold the defendant responsible under this gag order for things that he says if your witnesses persist guess what? this may not be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. he sent that message loudly and clearly judge kohn visor, thank you for your perspective on that. >> it's very important and qarrah, now that keith davidson is back on the stand and we are seeing prosecutors question him once again. what do we make of

of what i observed on tuesday, which is him speaking directly to the jury. i mean, is that a usual is that typical? i mean it just stood out to me that he was rectally like telling them a story. basically. yeah. well, prosecutor's often tell witnesses to look at the jury because really that's what you're doing is talking to the jury, the jury and the jury alone are the ones those who are going to decide the facts beyond a reasonable doubt. >> one way or another. and it's not about the judge. it's not about the prosecutor or the prosecutor tries to fade into the background and not make it about themselves because it really is about the jury's. so it's common for prosecutors to say, just talk to the jury, look at the jury. you'll even see prosecutors standing at the end of the jury box so that if they are looking at the prosecutor, they're looking at the general direction of the jurors. >> and one thing that they'd been doing is bringing in text messages and emails that keith davidson is involved and he's reading them aloud planning what happened there, showing an email right now from dylan howard, who was at the national enquirer to michael cohen and

keith david said they were kind of the three at the heart of the emails, the texts, the calls of figuring out how much money who was going to buy this and what they were going to do with it? >> and there does seem to be an acknowledgment within these communications that they know if they suppress her story, it will help trump with the election. now there's an october 26, so we're excuse away from election day email from dylan howard to michael cohen and keith davidson saying, thank you for both chatting with me earlier. so clearly there in discussions in these final days, this is such a critical period. i mean, this could help the prosecution's case and that clearly the reason for all the expediency here is that there's an election few days away. and in the wake of the access hollywood tape, it's important for them to suppress this. but as karen pointed out earlier, for the defense, you don't see trump on any of these emails. you only see him occasionally reference there's no indication that he is directly involved in the initial step to this hush money payment. yeah. trump just now started texting. i think a year ago or so. he was never famously never texture. he always just calls multiple times a day. i'm told he still

does most of his phone calls or early in the morning to his attorneys, but october 26 has been a singular date in this trial that was the date that michael cohen was desperately trying to get that account open. the home line of credit to which we know as a visually what was used just to pay stormy daniels, the $130,000 and keith davidson is testifying that he had lost trust and michael cohen and then it had to do with the delays in bunny. he was basically saying michael cohen has given him every excuse under the sun about yn paid jewish holidays. trump's campaigning, banks being closed, and he was saying, the other day i just couldn't deal with michael cohen and they thought he was stringing him along until after the election. >> yeah, that's what you're going to see. i think on cross it's all about how you don't trust michael kahn. you don't like michael cohen? michael cohen he thought was a liar that they're just going to use it's the prosecution's witness to make their own case. i mean, that's how they they don't have to put on a defense and they don't have to put any witnesses on, but when you can use the prosecution's witnesses to get all the facts

out that you want you've got them all right there. i mean, the cross is clear what they're going to do because you can't deny that this is right before the election. you can't deny that these were false business records, right? you can't deny that the payments were for made. can follow the money. but what they can do is distance donald trump from it and say, this is all about michael cohen. michael cohen was the one who wanted to do this and the only thing tying trump to this or michael cohen's words. and you can't trust michael cohen. he is a convicted liar. he nobody trusted him. nobody liked me, lied here. i mean, that that's what you're going to see the defense is going to be here because you could just tell from the questions that they're asking and not asking. >> and michael cohen responded in an email 6:47 a.m. the day after october 26 on october 27th, saying that the money asking davidson to confirm that the one fire had been received, davidson said, i confirm that i will work in good faith, that no funds shall be disbursed unless and until the plaintiff personally signs off all necessary settlement paperwork.

all of this is going on. i should note that many times is keith davidson has been answering questions from prosecutors. you'll see donald trump with his eyes closed for sustained periods of times he's not always sleeping. he ease often. it seems kind of ignoring the answer that is coming from the witness stand only relatively and intermittently, looking over there, this is keith davidson, the attorney who broke are these hush money deals to keep stormy daniels and karen mcdougal quiet. he is now back on the witness stan, we have much more insight from inside the courtroom in minutes as you were watching cnn's special live coverage i've, never once had to wait for insurance to approve a test or approved medication didn't have to worry about any of those things. >> thanks to the donations and o

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flowers.com? >> happy. mother's day welcome back, to cnn special live coverage of donald trump's hush money cover up trial. keith davidson, he is he attorney who represented the adult-film star and directors stormy daniels, as well as karen mcdougal in the 1998 playboy playmate of year. keith davidson is now walking through, walking the jury through how he brokered this deal at the heart of this case to keep her quiet is allegations that mr. trump, in his keen falsified those business records for that deal? that is at the heart of this case. my panel is back with me elie honig steinglass is the prosecution attorney. joshua steinglass is walking keith davidson through this confidential settlement agreement paperwork between stormy daniel's and donald trump, this was the agreement between david dennison and peggy peterson. these are the pseudonyms that keith davidson had come come up with for donald trump and stormy daniels. so stormy daniels is peggy peterson. and donald

trump is david debt dennis. and according to keith davidson and davidson testified earlier that he got that name, david denison from a high school classmate of his who has none too happy with it now ten is an important condolences to mr. dennison and all and mrs. dennis and especially for real keith davidson, isn't important go-between in this case, he's a lawyer who had a very specific niche practice where he represented both karen mcdougal and then stormy daniel's, both of whom were seeking to market their stories, what they were looking to do is get paid in order to stay silent and he spent most of his last day on the standard explaining the whole negotiation that he had with ami, the company that runs the national enquirer, primarily with this guy, dylan howard. >> we're not going to hear testify in this trial. and davidson laid out the back-and-forth how the ended up selling karen mcdougal story to ami at the end of that negotiation michael cohen gets involved and davidson testified it was my understanding that this was being done on to protect donald trump's campaign. and then weeks later,

and that's where we are now in the testimony keith davidson is representing stormy daniel's and now ami, the national enquirer they're out they've had enough of this. they don't want to keep paying, but also, right. they don't want to keep paying because david pecker thought that he was going to be repaid is high tunnel trump, according to his testimony, he got stiff and he got stiff. the prosecution right now is going over the liquidated damages provision, right. in this non-disclosure agreement, the stated amount was $1 per breach of contract. so if stormy daniels one out there and told her story against the orders of this non-disclosure agreement. she went have to pay donald trump, aka david davidson or whatever the name was dennis. dennis innocent, then adenosine, $1 million, right? >> exactly. so they end up of course, entering into this deal through keith davidson. the contacts here, michael cohen and keith davidson, the representing on behalf of donald trump and stormy daniels, respectively. and this is what leads us to the 130,000 dollar payment to stormy daniel's that lies at the heart of this case and elliott,

i mean, again, there is nothing necessarily illegal about an nda. >> there is nothing necessarily illegal about a hush money payment. >> no, there's nothing necessarily illegal about puffing. this is actually why steinglass is asking these very questions. now, how do mbas work, right? >> right now, we're asking keith davidson, stormy daniels, attorney, whether it's unusual to have an amount so much higher for the penalty for breaking it, than the amount in the contract davidson testifies. he doesn't think that would have been actually legally enforceable because, quote, it is so far in excess of the settlement amount of the contract. in other words, $130,000 to keep quiet and if she doesn't keep quiet. she has to pay 1 million and part of what the prosecution has to do here is sensitize the jury to how ndas work as contracts, but also what the penalties are and what might have been normal or abnormal about that. >> michael cohen, according to davidson, is the one who demanded that the provision be included and set at 1 million million who knows if he was doing that at the behest of mr. trump or just serving as his lawyer. but either way, they

wanted a tough penalties as stormy daniels could not tell her store and it can it can absolutely be a normal thing and contracts that there's a very high penalty for breach to disincentivize people from going out and breaking the contract. so even though it's 130,000 dollar amount, that million dollars doesn't really jump out to me that much. >> casey, one of the things that the trump attorneys are going to argue is that he did all this because he didn't want it out there for the trump brand, for his wife or his children. maybe incidentally, for his campaign, but the campaign was not the focus. you can't say this is an entirely election unrelated expense, right? and that of course is the burden of proof that the prosecutors have right. to make the case that this is a cover up because at the end of the day, that's the case that they're trying to make. there was a reason why they falsified these business records that makes that crime more significant, right so i still go back to the calendar and the place where we are in the election campaign, which is when this is all going on,

which is just i want to be precise. i'm not sure exactly when this kind of nda is floating around. but the dates that these all lining up, october, october 20 if 2016, right? >> literally i mean, likely we would have described that as days before election day. >> right. so that i think is probably where we're headed here, at least that's how we saw it kind of unfold earlier in this test. moreover, this is assuming it's happening at that moment. this is when folks, for instance at the national enquirer, are texting with davidson about the potential impact on the campaign. they were aware of the political moment that they were in josh steinglass, the prosecutor is asking who was accepting service on behalf on behalf of david dennis and aka donald trump essential consultants. >> that's the name of this shell corporation in delaware formed by michael cohen essential consultants and care of michael cohen, esquire. steinglass is showing davidson a side agreement which includes trump's real name and not david dennison and jamie again,

go something to think about here also, is it donald trump stands a decent if not better than decent chance of becoming the next president of the united states. if today's balls approved predictive and by the way, davids in a saying that trump's name in this agreement in the site agreement is written in his hand and handwriting proving that donald trump was actually involved. the david davidson or whatever david dennis i'm sorry. >> all right. david, that is fictitious. david dennis and is actually donald trump, et cetera. it is further agreed that neither party shall keep a copy of this document is i want with trump's actual signature and then only keith davidson, stormy daniel's attorney, and michael cohen as counsel for the parties, would maintain possession of it, but something overshadowing all of this, donald trump has a decent chance of being re-elected president in november, and he has sworn retribution and revenge against his political enemies. in a recent interview with time magazine, he said that if us attorney's did not carry out his instructions to prosecute people, he wanted prosecuted he felt it it was

with totally within his rights to fire them and replace them. davidson explaining the side letter agreement decodes the agreement that uses the synonyms exactly. >> i am your retribution. i believe is the quote we keep hearing that just goes back to the need the gag order because people are intimidated. they are fearful. and if he's the next president, he's given them some reason. he's been very transparent about why they might be just to go back to keith davidson, i thought it was interesting. kaitlan collins was in the courtroom and she mentioned earlier that he's a very good witness for the lawyers that when he answers a question, he turns to the jury. you them that he he he he knows what he's doing in there and he said earlier in earlier testimony that trump was the and a fischeri that he believed it was election-relate d. and let's not forget to

casey's point that this is october 2 weeks. we have heard testimony that it was possible they didn't. stormy daniels, they were not sure they were going to get paid they thought that they were being stalling was the word and there was some discussion that will if we get past the election, we won't have to make the payment that connects it to the election as opposed to the brand or so most jurors right now in the courtroom are looking at the monitors in front of their seats as the daughter document is displayed on it. this is the actual document. there are only two copies of one keith davidson had on behalf of stormy daniels one, michael cohen had on behalf of donald trump. it had donald trump's actual signature, keith davidson says he never saw a copy of the agreement where there was a signature on the line for david denison only that's the pseudonym for donald trump in this agreement, only michael cohen signed the agreement on trump's behalf. so keith davidson never saw that agreement so i suppose it's

only michael cohen actual that had the unless stormy daniels had a copy of for herself, but this one document that actually had donald trump signature was elusive. >> and so the question is whether or not this testimony that we're seeing right now helps the defense i wouldn't go as far as they helps the defense, but it's certainly something that they can and should cross-examined, meaning, worried about. >> you don't know it because you're not, it's not it's not clear. absolutely. based on the signature here that trump was involved you don't even know what there's other evidence that you're talking about. who signed it, who saw it. and i think that's a smart defense attorney would really push that point. well, one of the continuing features that we're going to see here is to what extent was michael cohen freelancing act? obviously, it's acting on behalf, but to what extent is he implementing the details of these deals without uprising, donald trump and virtually everything in this case is going through go-betweens. you're not going to see direct contact between donald trump and stormy daniels. keith davidson, he did everything for daniel's and for

mccarran mcdougal for when it came to ami, they dealt through dylan howard, not david pecker, michael cohen is doing business for donald thompson, the defense is going to say the principles, most importantly, donald trump, they're not getting there details. this is being worked out at lower levels, so they're gonna argue a knowledge and intent defense. he didn't know about the specifics, and that's a battleground that we're seeing, right? yeah. and as for donald trump signature, i'm sure the argument will be he just got thrown documents all the time and they came any design them. you sign i mean, didn't even know what was going on. i'm sure that's what the defense will argue is keith davidson trying right now to decode the hush money deal to stop stormy daniels for telling her story of an alleged tryst with donald trump. we're gonna have much more from the reporters inside the courtroom. you're watching cnn special so live coverage of the trump trial iraj on capitol hill in this is cnn foreign

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listening to this line of questioning with keith davidson. the prosecutor is where he's saying that michael cohen is very upset when a story came out about karen mcdougal and donald trump, and their relationship in the wall street journal just four days before the election, actually happened. and what we're seeing right now is that keith davidson texted dylan howard and the national enquirer, the night of the election and said, what have we done? dylan howard responded, quote oh, my god it seems very clear that prosecutors are trying to tie all of this to that date of november 8, 2016 that's right. >> the prosecutor shooter's of course, have the burden of proving this case to the jury beyond a reasonable doubt and an order to do that. they need to convince them that this whole arrangement had to do with whether or not this was going to affect the election. that's their that's their theory as opposed to just cover his tracks because you ms cheating on his wife. so the closer these texts get to the

election, the more people from the campaign or who eventually work in the white house, who are involved in this are going to be the focus of the prosecution to show that this was about something bigger than just a man cheating on his wife. this one buzz about the concerns that former president had about how this would look on the campaign trail yeah. >> and keith davidson is describing it, right? i always kind of gallows humor as they're watching the election results come in that night and he said there was an understanding and our efforts may have in some way or activities may have in some way, assisted the presidential campaign of donald trump. i mean, that is where prosecutors have been leading keith davidson to getting to drawing that direct line between negotiating these agreements and at least the people who go shaded them on behalf of stormy daniel's with trump's attorney, believed it was going to help him in the election that is powerful we'll

evidence not just because of what the people need to prove, the people have a problem as you've talked about, all morning and on prior occasions that michael cohen is a damaged witness, they need to make sure they get as many of his comments corroborated by as many people on as many avenues as it's possible, because the jurors are going to need to make sure that they have a good reason to accept his testimony because a man has lied under oath judge khan, dies or wheels have amd kaufman here with us who's here in new york. >> he's a former executive assistant district attorney for the manhattan da's office watching this trial very closely, and adam looking at what keith davidson is testifying right now, he's doing the same tactic that i witnessed him doing on tuesday, which is when he's answering these questions, he's a little i can directly at the jury, even when they're asking basic questions like who won the 2016 election and he's answering, obviously, it was donald trump

is looking at the jury as he's answering these questions, i wonder how impactful you believe that is no, it's always good for a witness to remember who who, who your audience is and you often, when you're prepping your witnesses, tell them, look know you're i'm asking you the questions, but, your honor, is the jury. >> and so having a witness who is a lawyer knows this area. and so we know that providing information, court could be directing it to the jury. so i'm not i'm not surprised with the someone who is a lawyer in court system knowing how to do that? >> and adam, i this we're getting these updates in real time from the remal. want to read to you what, what we just heard. keith davidson said he remembers near the holidays that he was in a weird apartment or department store strangely decorated, and that he got a call from a very despondent and saddened michael cohen and he said, keith

davidson says referencing michael cohen he said something to the effect of jesus christ. can you effing believe i'm not going to washington after everything. i've done for that effing guy, i'm quoting michael cohen here. i'm not going to actually say the word, but that is what keith davidson is saying. michael cohen said to him upset that he wasn't getting a job in the trump administration. where do you think prosecutors are going with this line of questioning well i i'm not sure. >> i think i'm not sure where the prosecutors are going, but it's clear where the defense will go with this. and it brings up a point we talked about this with david pecker the other day where no, when we get to the cross-examination with pecker they didn't really have to go after pecker and destroy him because as he gave the defense a lot of material that they could use. so there was a lot they could bring out from him that would help the defense case. and so with a witness like that, and i think we're probably going to see it with this witness. there's a

lot that he's saying that the defense will embrace and they will elevate thing things like cohen's obvious dissatisfaction with trump at this moment, things like someone was commenting earlier the fact that they never saw trump sign this, the trump wasn't a part. there's a lot of material for the defense to work with. and also, i would imagine that we'll see you it also attacking cohen's credibility through this witness in many ways. so i think it'll be interesting when we get to the cross to see how they react and what they take from the direct examination and try to amplify to make certain points with the jury yeah and paula reid, i mean, just reading this, there was an update that we just missed. >> there where michael cohen is treated, keith davidson like a therapist to a decree, i guess every single sentence has the effort and it's apologize. i

won't actually say it, but davidson said he recalls michael cohen saying that f and guy is not even paying me the $130,000 back person he is referring to and he says that f and guy is the president elect of the united states of america exactly at that time. so i think defense attorneys are really going to seize on this first. they're going to say, clearly this guy has an ax to grind hi and with the defendant going back all the way to the winter of 2016 and then also the idea that he didn't think at that point he was going to get paid back the hundred and $30,000 now right now, we're told trump's eyes remained closed while davidson is testifying. his lawyer, todd blanche, whispered something in trump's e or while has i stayed shut, which trump acknowledged, but didn't react to you, but i think defense attorneys are going to seize on that and argue, look, there was no grand conspiracy. some brilliant plan that we devise to suppress stormy daniels story. but michael cohen paying her and then we're going to pay her back. no prosecutors will also be able to try to untangle that. but i think this right here this is something that they're definitely going to revisit when they have a chance

to cross-examine him. >> well, and what about the significance of michael cohen complaining that he didn't get a job in the white house. i mean, that was the time when trump was interviewing people at trump tower for cabinet positions white house counsel, all of these positions and michael cohen did, as we report at the time, wanted to join the admin yeah. >> i mean, what the prosecution's doing right now now, is they're taking the sting out of the bad facts in the case. they're not going to wait for the defense to bring this up. they know it's coming out and so prosecutors will often bring up these what i would call bad facts like heating, get paid back like he didn't get a job in the white house because it's coming out one way or another. you don't want the jury to hear it from the first for the first time from the defense, as if you're hiding from it really you have to embrace all your facts as a prosecutor, the good, the bad, the ugly, and then tell the jury what it means. ultimately, in summation. so these are the facts of the case. it is what it is from the defense is going to use this as a way to show michael cohen has an ax to

grind against donald trump. >> yeah. also citing denials from keith davidson to reporters about this story. a reminder for you as we are watching closely what's happening in court, we are waiting to hear from president biden. we are told that he plans to speak about the chaos that we're saying play out with these protests on college college campuses across the country. meanwhile, here in new york and sayyed the core, prosecutors trying to connect the dots using this testimony to show donald trump wanted to keep stormy daniels quiet to boost it its chances of winning the election. >> we're covering both stories very closely. >> more cnn's special coverage next

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welcome back to cnn special live coverage. we are waiting for president by at the white house. we are told he plans to make remarks about the chaos we're seeing on college campuses with these anti-war, anti protests across the country biden has really said very little to this point about the protests and the arrests and all the rest we've seen on college campuses night after night, we're also getting some updates from inside the courtroom in new york where our reporters there's are following every detail of donald trump's hush money cover up for all the prosecution, dispensing with some potentially bad facts for their case. keith davidson the attorney for stormy daniel's is now detailing for the jury how trump's former lawyer and fixer, michael cohen was furious over donald trump refusing to pay him back in a timely fashion. also, we have learned that he was furious that donald trump had not tapped him to come with him to washington, dc, we're joined here in washington by former trump attorney tim parlatore.

and tim as we as you watch this play out, the jury being shown the january 18, 2018 statement from stormy daniel's davidson, keith davidson, her attorney being asked whether he prepared the statement in which she denies the affair. he said i believe so. steinglass asked, how would you categorize the truthfulness of the statement? this is do you agree with the assessment? this is the prosecution trying to get some bad facts out of the way so that when the defense introduces them as they no doubt will, because they undermine the case of the jury, won't oh, i didn't i didn't know that it's already been it's already been established, but that's absolutely detroit's it's something that prosecutors do a lot. it doesn't change the cross-examination and certainly, you would try to bring that out and try and make it sound that much more salacious than then that which the prosecutors tried to blunt it, but that's absolutely what's going on right now in one more thing about that, it's not just the surprise factor for the jury hearing of the first time it's also

because the prosecutor can control the questioning and ask it in such a manner that it comes out in a positive way when the defense has a crack at him, it'll be leading questions. thank you. you said this didn't you? and he can only really answer yes or no. so it's really just it's almost like a stage craft thing as much as it is surprising the jury. >> and here it is. keith. keith davidson is arguing that the truthfulness of the statement in which stormy daniel's denied the affair or the interlude or whatever you wanna call it how would you characterize, how would you categorize the truthfulness of the statement the prosecution asks and keith davidson says, well and extremely strict reading of this denial would technically be true. so all of all of you folks out there who get frustrated by lawyerly statements that don't actually deny deny something of although those of us not used to reading lawyer statements might actually say, oh look, he apologized or oh look, he denied it. davidson is saying with an extremely fine reading, i'd have to go back and look at this, figure out how it was actually true elie honig is

trying to thread a really thin needle here and i'm interested to see what comes next. what davidson is doing is walking the jury through the payment structure to stormy daniel's, and that's really important to the charges here. people need to understand there's two steps to this first, michael cohen, the individual pays stormy daniel's through keith davidson, hundred $30,000. the way michael cohen got that money we know from a prior witness is he drew down on his own personal mortgage without telling his wife and while misleading his banker, that was gary farro testified a couple of days ago. so cohen pays the hundred $30,000 first and davidson's giving us a really important insight into cohen's anxiety and fear at that moment, cohen saying he's not going to pay me back. i'm doing this for him. and that's going to allow the defense argued again, this is my go cohen acting as a freelancer. he's keeping donald trump in the dark. he's paying on his own now, the second half of that transaction is eventually donald trump and the trump organizations reimburse michael cohen and that comes over the course of the next several months, including after trump has become president through a

series of checks. so there's two parts here, but it's going to enable the defense to argue michael cohen was doing this on michael cohen was the architect here, not donald trump. >> and that really, i mean, the lawyers here, we have easily have to keep in mind the consumers of this information and that's the 12 people and the six other let me just interrupt for one second because we're all interested in the how how stormy daniels bernie is saying that the statement is technically true. he says, quote, i think you'd have to hone in on the definition of romantic sexual way. and then affair. i quote, i don't think that anyone had alleged that any interaction between she and mr. trump was romantic? >> that is clean. tonia the modern burden of it depends on the definition. >> yeah. >> unit part of the problem. there's as a lawyer, he's not supposed to be putting out false information. and so he has to thread the needle here of how does he testified truthfully now and at the same

time that say, i was facilitating a fraud back then and i was putting out a knowingly false statements. so i've had such an interesting point now that he's not just a witness, but he's a lawyer and he has to protect the fact that he wants to continue to be a lawyer or a member of the bar? >> yes. so this steinglass asked davidson whether statement was cleverly misleading. david says he doesn't understand the question. well, that's cleverly is meetings the lawyerly way to put it. i think the plain language way is were you being two? two cubed by half by parsing this language and the way you did with differentiating between romantic versus sexual versus versus not. so the statement and boy, this is really getting silly, but this is in 2000 hours, just get going to meet a new words. >> he said as the fact this is what she said. okay. this is a statement and he was actually asked about this by jimmy kimmel when she said something like, well, that looks like my signature doesn't it? but steinglass is asking how quote, rumors that i have received

hush money from donald trump are completely false, unquote is a true statement davidson says, well, it wasn't a payout and it wasn't hush money. it was consideration in a civil settlement agreement. so this is how the parsing is done the statement of 2018, the fact of the matter is that each party to this alleged affair denied its existence in 2006, 2011 in 2016, 2017, and now again in 2018, the sine statement reads i'm not denying this a fair because i was paid hush money as has been reported in overseas own tabloids. i'm deny it because it never happened. and so here's you have the attorney kasie khan saying, well, it wasn't hush money it was a civil agreement or something along those lines. so what do you use the phrase hush money to describe the money that was paid to your client by donald trump steinglass asks, i would never use that word davidson says it's actually two words, but anyway this is what no offense to this side of the table is what people hate about

four years oh, hold on. here as president biden, few moments about how much going on on our college campuses here. we've all seen images and they put to the test two fundamental american principles, excuse me the first is the right to free speech. and for people to peacefully assemble and make their voices heard. the second is the rule of law both must be upheld. we are not an authoritarian nation where we silence people or squash dissent the american people are heard. in fact, peaceful protest isn't the best tradition of how americans respond to consequential issues. >> but, but neither are we allow us country where our civil society an order must prevail throughout our history, we've often faced moments like this because we are a big, diverse, free-thinking and freedom loving nation in moments like this are always

those who rush in to score political points. >> but this isn't a moment for politics among them, for clarity so let me be clear peaceful protest in america violent protest is not protected. peaceful protest is it's against the law and violence occurs. destroying property is not a peaceful protest. it's against the law vandalism trespassing breaking windows, shutting down campuses, forcing the cancellation of classes and graduations. none of this is a peaceful protest threatening people, intimidating people, instilling fear in people is not peaceful protest. it's against the law the senate is essential to democracy, but to sent must never lead to disorder or to deny and the rights of others. so students can finish the semester and they're college education look, it's basically a matter of fairness. it's a matter of what's right there's the right to protest. but not the

right to cause chaos. people have the right to get an education all, right to get a degree the right to walk across the campus safely without fear of being attacked but let's be clear about this as well. there should be no place in any campus, no place in america for antisemitism or threats of violence against jewish students there is no place for hate speech or violence of any kind, whether it's antisemitism islamophobia, or discrimination against arab americans are palestinian americans it's simply wrong. there's no place for racism in america it's all wrong, it's on america. i understand people have strong feelings in deep convictions in america. >> we respect the right and protect the right for them to express that. but it doesn't mean anything goes it needs to be done without violence, without destruction without hate. and within the law and

i'll make no mistake as present, i will always the friend free speech and i will always be just as strong and standing up for the rule of law that's my responsibility to you. the american people my obligation of constitution thank you very much force you to reconsider any of the policies with regard to the region? no. >> thank you. >> do you think the national guard should intervene? know mr. reed, are calling for mr. president. the former president all right. >> president biden giving some comments about the unrest we've seen on college campuses talking about how these protests bring an odds two important american principles. one, of course, the right of free speech to demonstrate peacefully, and the other one, of course, the right of students to feel safe and secure in an academic establishment. he did on his way out of the room also say that he didn't think the national guards should be dispatched to college campuses, which of course has been going

on in texas for one, as well as other law enforcement agencies in other states. let's talk a bit about this before we go back to the trump trial dana bash, i know that there there has been criticism of president biden for waiting until today, quite late in all of this to give a statement what were your thoughts? yeah. we have heard from his spokespeople yesterday on the white house podium, and the deputy press secretary before that, since the unrest really started, but there have been cause not just from his political opponents, but from his political supporters to go out and to say something that is, it gives clarity and a very solid argument for what is okay, and what is not okay? and it's hard to imagine that anybody heard that and didn't hear a very, very clear argument that as you said, jake, you can be somebody who

opposes any policy and you should have the right that is a fundamental right in the united states of america. but you can't intimidate, you can't do anything to stop people from going to classes or from feeling unsafe. and it is it is complicated. it is something that is steeped in nuance, but it's also something that a leader can and should. and i think probably in this case, did be able to clarify and make easier to understand for the american people. that's what a leader is supposed to do. and let's also be clear, we went way past nuance with the violence that we've seen in the last two days. i mean, break and that is i think the distinction that president biden was trying to make, breaking into the building at columbia, the images that we saw out of ucla. we were just showing some of them on the screens here. there have been all these conversations about these vary in many cases, terrible signs and messages that have been on these college campuses in terms of

anti-semitism but the escalation in recent days, i think is clearly what motivated at president to come out now, even after i will say every morning, i have gotten up looking at the previous day. what did the president say about this? because i've been waking up and covering and five in the morning, these protests breaking out on these college campuses. and the answer has always been until let's afternoon, we'll know, here's some paper, here are some off-camera comments from the administration. clearly, they felt like they needed to finally say something. and i think you could really here for president biden and dana, you were talking about this as we listened to him, you could hear the conviction in his voice in this speech. yep. so when you were doing your showed this morning, casey 5:00 a.m. east coast time i'm is 2:00 a.m. pacific time. and it was at 1:00 a.m. pacific time, i believe that law enforcement went into the encampment at the campus of ucla in los angeles to clear out the encampment there, which obviously is generally not as smooth and easy process. josh campbell is

there are law enforcement correspondent and former fbi official looking at the well, that does not look ready for graduation. i'll just say that josh campbell no it certainly doesn't. and you know, after that clash that we saw last night with law enforcement here, ultimately deciding that it was time to go in. >> they did this in steps. >> they issued an unlawful assembly order and then ask this crowd to disperse and then they went in the california highway patrol. there were some skirmishes we've talked to some of the officers inside so that they had things that were thrown out. i saw one officer who was covered in the powder from a fire extinguisher, but no injuries being reported at this point, we are learning and i'll i'll tell you as we kind of zoom in about what's left here, you can see behind me there were 250 protesters approximately in this it's camp that's what they chp tells us they brought in 250 officers of their own so essentially one officer for one protester bringing all of those

individuals out we are told that 130 of those protesters were taken into placed under arrest we're waiting to see what those charges actually are now overnight, we started to get a sense that this was about to go down because yesterday this gets to the presence point about lawful versus unlawful. the university itself, up to the point of last night, didn't ask the police to come in and actually clear this camp, but that all changed. we started seeing resources come in. we saw the fbi field office, which is about a mile from here, essentially we turn into a staging point for dozens and dozens of law enforcement officers, multiple prisoner buses were brought in. and as you mentioned, j. around 1:00 a.m. time, we are a little further than that, but that was the time when they actually made entry into the actual camp itself. i've going in conducting those arrest right now, it is really quiet. what you're seeing. i don't know if you can see in the back brown there, but a line of lapd officers just showed up along with private security for the

university here and essentially did a complete sweep. there were a few protesters that were still milling about there was a standoff of sorts early this morning between the chp and protesters on that perimeter, then the chp just laughed. but now the officers are back. they're clearing that camp. university tells us that this is the beginning of the cleanup process. after a very, very tense several days here, jake? yes. and that's usually i said note a beautiful, spotless campus in los angeles, not what it looks like. right there before we turn back to the trump trial, i do want to ask the lawyers some questions because there are some important legal questions here. it's very easy to say. i support peaceful pop protest. i don't support violent protests. the fact of the matter is that it's the kind of speech that has been heard at these protests that's in the grayer, right? when you have protestors saying go back to poland, to jewish students when you have protestors saying that what hamas did on october

7 was fine and praising individual terrorists. that is free speech. it is protected by the first amendment private college campuses are not places that have to adhere to a first amendment protection necessarily write and it is in that nuance however, ugly and hateful, anti-semitic that nuance is where we find some of the real issues here that are not so simple. >> so a couple of things. first of all, free speech is protected, even hateful speech up to the point of imminent incitement. and this may bring to mind donald trump's rally speech. we did a lot of analysis along those lines. was this likely to imminent? italy incite people to commit crimes in this case? yeah, it has to be clear enough, specific enough that you can look at it and go that's likely to cause someone to break the law, to assault somebody to destroy property. the other thing is when we're looking at these encampments people do of course, have very broad first minute rights to protest, to assembles, right in the first amendment. but that's always subject to reasonable what the law calls time, place, and

manner restrictions, meaning you can't take over the quad, you can't live in an area that's available for public consumption. you can't block other people from getting to class. so all of which we've seen all videos, stuff. yeah. i don't think there's any first amendment defense for the actual physical and cabinets. >> and as for the individual speech that we've heard, it really depends on the nuances of whatsapp, but the key leinz, you cannot incite someone to commit a crime soon. >> can i just add one thing? you talked about when the president walked out of the room, he was asked two questions, one of which, as you said, was, should the national guard to be deployed? he said no the other was a question about whether he will change his policies. he also said, no, that should not get lost in this because the people who are protesting peacefully, doing everything right on these campuses and elsewhere, what they are saying that they want is for the president to change his policies because of the way that the netanyahu government

is acting. whether the prosecuting the war and so forth, they want to divest from israel. they want the us to stop funding, or at least at helping with the weaponry that israel had. he said one word, no, he's not going to change any of that. >> yeah. one of the other things a lot of these protestors are calling for, of course, is also that universities divest all money from companies that do business in israel or military companies such as boeing as we've been talking about what we just heard from the president's important moments happening inside the manhattan courtroom. >> keith davidson stolen the stand we're going to tell you the latest from donald trump's hush money, corrupt, prowling minutes. you're watching cnn special live coverage every stories of the morning in five minutes or less. cnn's five things with kate bolduan, streaming weekdays exclusively on on max, itch. >> scratch must not itch stop

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our behaviors, social engagement see that predictive analytics, how long have you been doing this? >> as long as we've been with bds people who know no bd, you i'm arlette saenz at the white house, and this is cnn welcome back to cnn's special live coverage is keith davidson, the former attorney for the adult film actress stormy daniel's is still on the witness stand now living the jury there, what he branded as michael cohen's pants on fire stage as public reports were coming out about stormy daniel's is alleged relationship with donald trump. >> i'm here with cnn chief legal affairs correspondent paula reid, and karen friedman, agnifilo. agnifilo, the former chief assistant district attorney in the manhattan da's office and there has been a really interesting line of questioning happening right now inside the courtroom where the prosecutors are asking keith davidson simple things like, do you consider this to be hush

money? this, what do blue, this was a relationship and a fair between donald trump and stormy daniels because the statements they were putting out at the time from stormy daniels don't rules and from keith davidson, karen, we're basically saying that there was no relationship that she was not paid hush money and keith davidson is pushing back and he's refusing to call it hush money. what do you make that? >> this is the of slippery language that people really dislike? when whether it's a lawyer or politician, i don't know. this reminds me. i did not have sexual relations with that woman. comment. it's it's clear that this is not true that he was being too cute by half as they say and what's happening right now as josh steinglass has to just say, look, this is what it is this is the cd world that donald trump lived in. these are the people he dealt with. you dealt with with the underbelly of media of lawyers of amino michael cohen. you've rudy giuliani, you have this guy keith davidson but prosecutors

going to say, look, i didn't pick these people, donald trump picked all these people. and this is what you're seeing. but there's no way they're going to embrace this kind language in this parsing of words. but it is what it is. yeah, i mean, he's calling it a consideration instead of calling it hush money, even though we just saw the contract polo that says stormy daniels couldn't speak publicly about it. >> they were riding her denials when people for reaching out about it. i mean, what else would you call it? >> exactly? she's getting hundred and $30,000 and they are getting her silence. they're getting hurt to hush. >> so the idea that that was consideration for something else, it just doesn't hold water. >> i think even calling it slippery is being generous. and then the idea that he's well, we're denying there was a romantic relationship no. read that statement. it specifically says that she's denying any sexual or romantic relationship. so him trying to weasel out of that. it's just not going to play well with jury. well, because he's tried to parse it. he said a relationship. he considers to be an ongoing interaction with any endeavor had sex multiple times, allegedly in her

statements, you saying, i am deny a sexual encounter or end or romantic relationships. so he is he's really not doing himself any favors here. but again, like karen said, they have to get some of this out of the way. >> adam kaufmann is watching all of this along with us in his back with me now and adam, you know, what is happening right now inside the courtroom is they're talking about what stormy daniel's went on jimmy kimmel's late-night program after donald trump delivered his state of the union address. this is january 2018, just to take us all back. this is when all this reporting was coming out in the wall street journal and other publications, i remember because that was the state of the union where it belonging to trump, the first lady at the time refused to ride in the motorcade with her husband to capitol hill for that she instead went separately, i believe she was wearing a white suit that night. a lot of subliminal messages there and right now, we're say we're seeing that some of the jurors are smiling. is keith davidson is explaining a text message. and what he meant by wtf as they were we're talking about her appearance on jimmy kimmel where she's denying the allegations of the

affair and of hush money which we now can see her signature on these agreements shocking. there there are people get caught up in lies about sex who would have thought get there's an interesting thing that's happening in the courtroom right now, because you have both the substance of what is being said, but you also have the appraisal of the witness and through the witness the people's case. >> so the juries are sort of both look, listening to what is being said, but they're also watching this guy and at least four commentators this morning. i've used the word weasel and he doesn't look good and it's something that the defense will get up on cross-examination and make a lot of hay width and they'll feel continue to make this guy looks slippery to make him look untrustworthy and hope that by association some of the jurors will start to be a little bit skeptical about the

da's case. so there's both the substance of the cross and the feeling in the courtroom that you have to be in the room to really get that. but it sounds like it's coming over on the text screen as well and that's an important part for the defense to try to get some jurors to be skeptical and perhaps reject portions of the district attorney's case that's an important point because obviously prosecutor hasn't been questioning keith davidson for several hours now, but the defense is going to get their chance to cross-examine him soon, which i was told could take up most of the day and davidson is saying he was kinda exasperated as stormy daniels was appearing on jimmy kimmel because he was learning think about it all from michael cohen and text messages who was in pants on fire mode as he described it as all this was coming out. >> they were continuing to text until early in the morning on january 31st, was the prosecution trying to get out with michael cohen's state of

chaos and whatever you would call the pants on fire description as all of this information is coming out publicly i assume it's not liar, liar pants on fire. >> it's a different a different pants on fire so as people have said one of the things to prosecution needs to do is to bring out some of the negative aspects of their witnesses. michael cohen has got a lot of baggage. this is all going to come out eventually. and as the prosecutor, you want to bring that out first. you don't want the jury to have the sense that you're trying to hide it, that you're covering up for this witness, who you are calling to the witness stand? you want to bring all of this out in advance to take the sting out of it. and then the other thing is i'm just listening to this and it almost feels like the direct could be the cross but the pants on fire the panic. this is all just more eventually will be used as part of the hearing down michael cohen's credibility as a

witness and we're hearing now how michael cohen threaten to sue stormy daniel's many times, and keith davidson talking on how he described it as like threading a needle, trying to navigate the parameters of this agreement, which he's refusing to call a hush money agreement. >> and paula reid, what we both covered the trump white house. >> this is january 2018. >> donald trump has been president for a year at this point. he's delivering his first state of the union address. it just shows that all of this was going on well into when donald trump was in the white house, when david pecker is showing up to the white house, michael cohen is still handling columns for donald trump, even though he was upset that trump didn't give them a job in the white house exactly. it's very chaotic. and what we often see behind the scenes at the trump organization, or especially in the trump administration, is that there is chaos and you don't always have the most adept actors executing things for then-president, now former president and what we know here is they're about to completely

lose control of stormy daniels and about a month from this this time, she's going to do an interview with anderson cooper and admit that yeah. all these denials were complete lies but as chaos has often been a defense against conspiracy right? that it was so chaotic that there was no there was no way that these people could execute, design and execute some sort of vast conspiracy among themselves. so i think you're going to see the defense attorneys when they have a crack at davidson really seize on that and also the apparent absence of their client and any of these conversations. >> i mean, that does seem to be something that todd blanche in them is a good moment for them to begin their defense, their cross-examination of him because he's refusing to say it's what's at the center of all of this i think he's going to come back and say, i think what davidson's going to say is, look, i wasn't trying to be tarred, karen, let me just add this before you've that thought. >> and keith davidson characterizes those things. coal would say to them, including don't f with us, you don't know who you're effing with, things like that. apologies for everyone who is watching in the middle of the

day right now, a lot of f words and almost every text message it appears that michael cohen sit during this period of time. >> i think what davidson is trying to say here is look, i'm not slippery and that's on me. i wasn't trying to be two if i have i was trying to not be in violation of the order of being asked questions and we're trying to respond in a way that didn't violate the order and then unleash the wrath of michael cohen and on stormy daniels. and so i think that's a slightly different spin on this this feeling that oh, he's just a liar. so we'll see how it plays out about trying get back to donald trump saying he wanted her to deny her story to protect his client, his client, of course, the president of the united states. and that's gonna be really important for the prosecutors getting davidson to make the connection to the defendant that he was actively involved in trying to keep stormy daniel's quiet because he knew if that story got out, it will be damaging to him all roads lead back to donald trump will see how effectively the prosecution makes that argument.

>> here. right now, donald trump, before president of the united states is in court listening to all of this, these updates that we are bringing you he's listening to this. suppose details of his sex life, and he's hush money payments and what happened. there are much more from inside the courtroom. after a quick break the best mother's day food gibbs are shipping nationwide so what you want martha stewart strawberry layer cake jacques torres, signature chocolates danielle volutes award winning beef and butter kit or legendary cheesecake from juniors restaurant gold belly. it shipping the greatest food gifts to your door. order. now for mother's day and get ph

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finished its direct examination of keith davidson. keith davidson, who was at one the attorney for adult film actress and director of stormy daniels, not to mention 1998 playboy playmate of the year, karen mcdougal. don't f with us without the asterisks is now part of the record. and donald trump's hush money cover-up trial. those are the words that michael cohen said to davidson according to davidson, when cohen was in davidson view and all in an all out frenzy to try to keep the stormy daniels story quiet. the prosecution has finished its direct examination of this attorney, keith davidson, and trump's team is going to begin their cross-examination after this brief break that they're in right now, i want to review what happened while we were covering other things in a second, but before i do, let's turn to our legal experts. it's and see what they anticipate. trump's lawyers, the defense team will try to do when they have keith davidson on the stamp. so two things.

first of all, the donald trump's lawyers are going to use keith davidson to attack michael cohen. and that's already started to happen in the direct examination. keith davidson is already testing fight that he hated dealing with michael cohen, that michael cohen was outrageously aggressive, most important one point, keith davidson says to michael cohen's face, i don't believe a word you say to me. so prosecutors are going to really focus in on that. the second thing i think they're going to try to get across is this is all just a bunch of lying liars leinz, to each other about sex. and that came through with mega tail end of davidson's testimony, where he's trying to say, well, it was i wouldn't say it's a hush money payment, but it was a payment for her to stay quiet. and while i wouldn't say it was a fair because they didn't have romantic feelings. i mean, this is nonsense. all of them are lying to each other. they're lying to the public and they want the jury to just say, who can sort all this out. this is just scoundrels. they're all lying to each other. and just wash their hands if there's one of the exact quotes to get at the parsing that keith davidson was in how is it true to say that

stormy daniels and donald trump didn't have a relationship. he said, quote, because i don't think that anyone has ever alleged that there was a relationship between stormy daniels and donald trump? i believe a relationship isn't ongoing interaction. did they actually teach this takes a holistic view of what what do you think i have coming? i did not get to take that glass. >> i did not take a class. sounds like a good one, but not are saying 1,010.01 is one-to-one. no. i actually think nothing to see here. normalcy of these types of arrangements or agreements. this whole idea of what we were interacting about was the language was consideration in exchange for a contract between parties that we were just talking about, payment for an agreement here. not all this business about hush money and falsified records and so on. so i think what they do is simply get him to walk through again, the parameters of the agreement and just normalize it as a

former attorney for donald trump, would you be relishing this cross or how would you see this opportunity? >> mishneh going to be as much fun as michael cohen himself. but of course certainly, i mean, i think that there's a lot of stuff here and i don't know what the discovery was on this guy, but everything that the prosecution just put out on direct there's a lot you can work with here. so i would go and use him to attack michael cohen's credibility and there's a lot of different angles, so you can use on that. i would use him to kind of separate michael kahn from donald trump because there's a lot of things that apparently is doing on his own without getting approval from above and the parts were michael cohen is even saying say it came from me, not him so you can try and use that to separate them the idea that he, michael cohen is calling this guy up when donald trump goes to dc and is complaining about not going down to the white house. you can go into that and how that's crazy to me. the idea that why why would you say to keith davidson if you're upset with something your client did the call up opposing counsel

and crying and shoulders, just it's insane and went away maybe for normal attorney, it's insane. so let me let me just read some quotes to our this side of the table, which is stuff after that we missed cohen threatened to sue stormy daniel's many times, keith davidson said, he can be a very aggressive guy. >> cohen threatened to quote rain legal hell down upon her. don't f with us. you don't know who your effing with? and things like that. davidson said, this is michael cohen doing his job as opposed to using mr. davis my son would say that tracks that is one that's ever interacted with michael cohen who hasn't been threatened words out of my mouth. >> very pleasant. >> now. but when he was in, donald trump attack dog mode, that was classic. i mean, you could cut and paste that and put it on the phone of michael

cohen and hit send and it would look exactly the same to so many reports. is that so many lives that not his job? that's that's my that's my point. is that he was doing that on behalf of we're going to call from rahm emanuel when he was obama's white house, j. i did. >> i did. and you can hold the phone out of here without the speaker phone. >> can i just say though it is clear what the prosecution has done here, i think all three of you will agree. they're trying to inoculate the way yes. they're bringing all of this up ahead of time in front of the jury. and then i assume we will get to some point where they will say the equivalent of the point is what isn't whether or not you like michael cohen or he was a jerk or what he's not the one who's on trial. and these are the facts and the documents were falsified. okay. >> yeah. >> i mean, i think this again goes back to what we've been talking about as they've been

going through this. >> and it speaks to what cohen is doing day by day. >> the questions about the gag order. it all goes to his credibility and the way that he interacts with trump and whether this is going to be enough, right? that is this inoculation going to be enough to overcome the vast mountain of evidence that we all have that michael cohen cohen has told a lot of lives seems to be willing to tell lies and it's hard to trust him. right? i mean, that's that's the the hill they have to climb. no. >> yeah. you've car is in a break right now. we're going to have much more cnn's special coverage ahead. stay with us. we're going to squeeze in a quick break we're here to get your side of store a bribery prostitution. why do we keep ending up? >> you can't write this stuff united states of scandal with jake tapper. >> now streaming on macs america is in a race for its

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if you or a loved one have mesothelial mac we'll send you a free book to answer questions you may have call now and we'll come to you 808 to one 4,000 welcome back to cnn's special live coverage. keith davidson, the onetime attorney for the adult film actress stormy daniels just love to stand as donald trump has also left the courtroom in a few minutes when the judge returns with the jury, trump's team will get their chance to cross-examine keith davidson, obviously going i'm just something to watch very closely, joining me now is criminal defense attorney bill brennan, who represented donald trump's payroll corporation and a tax fraud trial. and trump himself in his second impeachment trial and mr. brennan, thanks for being here. and i just wonder, first of what your takeaway was from the closing questioning and that line of questions that prosecutors had for keith davidson well, good morning, caitlin. >> and thanks for having me.

josh steinglass was smart to try to get this out at the end of direct to, maybe take the edge off the cross a little. but these are the types of lawyer witnesses that personify why the general public has a bad taste in its mouth for lawyers, i mean, for this man to get on there and play linguistic jeanette gymnastics, saying, well, it really wasn't hush money. it was consideration. that's like calling a robbery and involuntary loan. i mean, it's all going to come down to believability and credibility he yourself in the place of one of those jurors. and at the end of this, mr. blanche is going to get up and he's going to say, look, you know, it comes down to who do you believe and what has the ring of truth? and let's say you took your five-year-old daughter down to the skating park and there's little island in the middle and there's a big sign that says no scale hitting the day thin ice. but michael cohen's on the ireland and davidson's on the island and saying, come on over the ice is fine. would you put your daughter on that thin

ice on the good word of michael cohen and that's the problem here there's these colin particularly is a polluted source. and so far i heard somebody say all roads lead to donald trump. now, all roads lead to cohen. cohen is unhinged. he's erratic, he's he's calling and crying on davidson shoulder one day about not getting a job in dc and then telling him you don't know who your effing with. i mean, this is this is a witness that the defense will have great fodder with on cross those are too strong analogies back-to-back. >> if you're todd blanche, or whatever trump attorney is going to handle the cross-examination here what's your first question right out of the gate for keith davidson monies back on the witness stand and you didn't believe cohen. so why should this jury he says what he was when he

said he didn't believe michael cohen. i was in there. that was that specific line of questioning where cohen kept basically delaying when they were going to wire the money for stormy daniels, he was saying, well, it's jewish holidays. the banks are closed trump's campaigning and five different states, he was saying i didn't believe his excuses about why he couldn't pay me oh, well, again, we can drill it down and it sets and subsets, but he didn't believe him. >> and that's, that's huge for the defense. cohen as a conviction for lying to congress, he is a convicted felon. he's a polluted source. and davidson was davidson should have embraced the hush money payments. so yeah, it was hush money. that's that's what that's what was four to try to dance around that and say, well, was there the romantic, i don't know those romantic. it was really consideration it leaves a bad taste in the fact finders mouth we'll and prosecutors really tried to

drill down on just how unbelievable the denials from stormy daniel's were, how memorable of a moment do you think that will be for the jury potentially? well, i mean, think about a caitlin, you're going to have cohen, a convicted liar. you've got davidson, who's doing fred astaire all over the dictionary. and now you'll have ms clifford, who on video on some late night show saying, but never happened. i mean, you've got three people the light at some point, whether it's macro or micro they've been liars at some point at least two of the three. >> so i think that there's a lot to work with. the jury and the crucial point here too, is even if all this happened and even if i don't think the prosecution is tied it directly to the defendant yet, but even if they do with other witnesses over the other means unless it's shown to be in furtherance of another crime, they don't get the felony bill

brennan, the gi thank you very much for many of those analogies that you squeezed in there those few minutes, i should note the judge, the jury, the defendant, the witness, all back in the courtroom now is cross-examination of kenya davidson is going to start and just moments. >> we'll bring you all of those updates live here on cnn special live coverage at morgan stanley school hardware meets bold new thinking at 88 years old we still see the world with a wonder of new eyes helping you discover untapped possible abilities and relentlessly working with you to make them real

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critical witness. this is keith davidson, the former attorney for adult-film star director stormy again, you also as well as 1998 playboy playmate of the year, karen mcdougal mr. davidson, being questioned by trump attorney emil beauvais. >> davidson, just confirmed for the jury that he has never had any interactions directly with donald trump, the former president of the united states. cnn reporters inside the courtroom telling us that trump is staring at the witness as the answer questions, answers questions from donald trump's attorney johnnie, doing this now in studio is michael cohen's former attorney, former lanny davis, to answer some of our questions. first of all, lanny, thanks so much for being here. appreciate it. >> have you spoken with michael cohen recently at all? last week or so? yes, it has you doing has to fill the trial is going i think he's feeling the pressure, but still weights to tell the truth as he did when we first met when we decided to work together. if you listen closely, you can hear trump's attorneys salivating to do

cross-examination against michael cohen. is he read not only is he ready, but the salivation is to his credit or the low expectations about his lying and going to prison being a perjury and all those words we're used when michael testified in front of a congressional committee where the rules of evidence were an applying and he was on national and international television. the first words he said to the republicans, i'd be interested my fellow attorneys. what you would do on cross examination with this? is i am ashamed of what i did i'm here to tell the truth. i don't expect you to believe me. but i'm here to do an own what i did for donald trump. so this witness, when he testifies, i am sure is going to say yes, i allied and yes, i did wrong in many cases for donald trump. but i own that now i'm telling the truth and it will be up to the jury to

decide whether he is credible. the people who cross examined him, of course, we will try to suggest that he's not credible so right now, just so just to tell you what's going on inside the courtroom right now, emil bove, hey, who is donald trump's attorney, is getting keith davidson to talk about the deal, the hush money deal with karen mcdougal, the playboy playmate of the year from 1998 and she said that the deal hundred and $50,000 and she doesn't have to talk about her relationship with donald trump was her dream there was ongoing value and her image and likeness, right? >> but they asked yes, davidson said davidson confirmed that he did not speak with michael cohen about the karen mcdougal deal to separate deal until after it was closed, dana land eight. good to see you. you talked about the testimony that michael cohen is going to give but the other question now, i remember for you when you worked with him saying that you do have the receipts, meaning it's not just what he says, it's what he can show and what we're seeing this morning is the trumped event defense trying to separate what michael cohen was doing from donald trump's direction just cohen

have the ability to say at this wasn't me freelancing. this was at his direction. >> well, he certainly will say that to show it to show it. the case is documented for everything that michael says. and the documents, our emails and text messages from others not for mr. trump and i always start when i'm doing these interviews that mr. trump is innocent man until he is proven guilty under our system. so everything i say today, certainly with the knowledge of the gag order. but respect for the gag order is that everything i say is left up to a jury to decide my ultimate answer. the attacks by the quest examination we're doing their job. it's up to the jury to use common sense to answer your question. and the documentation of what michael says will be part of the establishment that what he's saying now, even if he lied in the past is documented and the jury just may believe lanny, did you talk to michael cohen recently about his decision to come out and say, i'm not going to pack mr. trump anymore while

this is going on as these gag order back-and-forths have been happening, do you think he understands there's potentially repercussions for him if he keeps doing that. >> so you know, i hate not answering questions. i can definitely answer the question that we have discussed the subject and you'll probably see not the results for my advice. but you'll probably see him showing more caution anything you think that's the right idea. i've certainly i'm not again, going to tell you my advice, but and i'm no longer acting as an attorney, but yes. i think you'll see a different of course of conduct, could i just quickly ask about the receipts as you say, and you've pointed out the emails and text messages are not with donald trump. they are with others when you talk about the jury's decision and common sense but the bar here is beyond a reasonable doubt you know, what's in those emails and text messages. >> do you think they make the case beyond a reasonable doubt

so the answer is yes, but it will be up to a jury to use is common sense. i can't predict what a jury will do and i respect the jury system, whether it's me or against me, but i do think based on what i know, i've been in the room for three years with michael wall. this case was being prepared. and even before this particular case, the previous case on financial fraud that mr. bag decided not to bring i know that michael is backed up in everything that that he says by other witnesses, mr. pecker if for example, of mecole, simply corroborate what mr. parker said and we up to the jury on the testimony involving mr. trump and himself and nobody else, whether mr. cohen should be believed or if mr. trump takes the stand and he denies whether mr. trump should be i believe and i'll leave that up to the jury. >> and lanny, i'm sure that michael cohen and the prosecution will offer exactly the narrative that you just described, which is michael cohen did what he did back then when he was with donald trump committed a lot of crimes. now

he's come clean and he has done that as you note, effectively before but part of the problem from michael cohen is the narrative that i only ever committed crimes were donald trump is not true. he pled guilty to tax fraud and bank fraud, having nothing to do with donald trump and now having to do with the taxi medallions, right? exactly. his own business. it was a taxicab medallion lawyer, so he pled guilty in federal court to those two crimes in 2018. now, he testified at the civil fraud trial a couple of months ago he said, i actually did not commit those crimes. i actually lied under oath in front of judge pauley in federal court when i pled guilty. so did he commit tax fraud and bank fraud or did he lie to judge pauley? >> so again, i can't sorry. i can't answer the factual. are no. did no longer represents him. not only that is elie wouldn't answer your question. did you client can but his argument is he only pleaded guilty to those crimes because they were threatening to us those wife. >> let me answer your question. his lawyer, who's a great laurie unsure, you know, danya perry of former posture has

said publicly, so i'm safe quoting his lawyer that he testified to the commission of those tax crimes because he was coerced, because his wife was threatened with an indictment on a friday night to be announced on monday morning. and so he had to what his lawyer has said say something to the court that was not true and he's going to pay for that just a quick follow. >> does he say the same thing about the campaign finance crimes that he pled guilty to, the same day does he said i pled guilty to those only because i was pressured or because actually committed those. >> so i'll just let the public record speak that the crimes that he pled guilty to and didn't go to trial he didn't even get a chance to talk to the prosecutors on friday night, his attorney said on monday morning, you and your wife will be indicted including five counts of tax fraud and he just had no choice according to danya perry, to say yesterday now, more than anything else, i'm just truly curious as to how the jury will see all this. only because the narrative that i was lying to protect donald

trump or are engaging in behavior at his direction? yes. it helps michael cohen somewhat, but there's still lies and i thank it, can both be true that he has a compelling reason for behaving the way he did, or even that the receipts support the things that he says. but i think any defense attorney worth their salt can really undermine this is more a statement in the form of a question. anything else? but i think any defenses during worth it's all can really undermine everything he says here so of course you're, you're saying something that might be the case for this jury, right. >> but there are some very checkered past defendants in rather witnesses in organized crime cases that have a lot of apologizing to do for the murders and other things that they committed. yet they become the chief witnesses for the prosecution, giving interrupt for one second. i apologize just because what's going on in court is significant right now and we'll beauvais, who was donald trump's attorney, is talking to keith davidson,

the attorney for stormy daniels and current trouble about michael cohen and beauvais is zeroing in on call. the davidson had with michael cohen in december 2016. davidson testifies of cohen, quote, i thought he was going to kill himself this is because colin had thought he was gonna get a job in the trump white house, the trump administration, and he did not get that. we know that michael cohen was frustrated by that from davidson's previous testimony, but this is the first time we've ever heard keith davidson express that he was convinced of michael cohen's being so distraught as to actually be in the realm of self-harm. atlanta davis this is obviously being cited as an example, being brought forward as an example of of cohen's instability, his rashness. davidson says that cohen had times at times talked with him about being trump's chief of staff or attorney general i don't know if you have any thoughts on this, but, you know, michael cohen better than the rest of us freshwater,

that's an opinion testimony by a lawyer, right? >> it's not necessarily a fact. and secondly, no, i'm not going to comment on that. i know michael is going to tell the truth and it will be up to the jury, given those kinds of assertions whether he's believa-bull and i think the key question for everybody watching is whatever michael cohen did in the past when he testifies, will the jury use common sense and reach a conclusion that what he's testifying to this moment is backed up and it's true and it will be up to them to decide what by the way, just telling we know attorneys are approaching the bench because so steinglass, the prosecutor has objected, probably based on what you just said, this is opinion testimony and he is not qualified mr. davidson, to render a psychological analysis or opinion. >> i was just going to say it's not it's not just evidence of someone's rashness or behavior, but also his motivation for going after the defendant because that's evidenced of his having a beef with the defendant and a bias that would waive his testimony and make him want to testify.

>> there is no dispute that michael cohen has a beef with donald. absolutely. >> no one would disagree with that. one would but the defense has to put that on the record. >> they're gonna put that on the record now. and then really push cohen on it when they cross examined. >> i remind everybody that documents don't lie and tapes don't lie. there is a audio tape of me trump, and i'll let a jury decide what the interpretation of that audio tape is. i've heard it many times. i was on this particular cnn show it in the evening when that tape was first. so we're going to at least remind us what the tapes house the tape has mr. trump and michael cohen talking about the payment of $150,000 to mcdougal and there's a word that was attributed to michael and correctly that was used by trump on tape of that, you mean in cash. so that's a tape that speaks for itself. there's ways addressing the tape critically, but the jury will hear all the evidence. you have to depend on

michael cohen. >> all right. fascinating stuff right now it's donald trump's defense teams chance to poke holes in the prosecution's narrative. emil bove, j. trump's attorneys currently the cross-examining keith davidson, stormy daniels, and karen mcdougal's attorney much more at cnn special live coverage in just minutes. thanks so much for watching. we'll be right

back hey, brian, it's kaitlan collins, how loria hi. how are you? >> thank you for having me i'm lovely. >> thanks for joining us

onald

trump looking as the witness, keith davidson and his attorney, emil bove vey, as emil bove is cross-examining that former attorney for the adult film actress stormy daniels. >> this is seen as a special live coverage of donald trump it's hush money trial. and trump's attorney is now asking keith davidson, is of questions. questions on michael cohen in his state of mind. and the former president's fixers pattern of behavior as he is on the witness stand, the cross-examination now >> current is we're looking at this line of questioning, essentially what a meal beauvais is asking keith davidson is if he was trying to make sure to avoid the appearance of extortion as he was negotiating this payment, getting this money from michael cohen to his client, stormy

daniels. what do you make of this line of questioning that they've started with? >> well, there's always concern if you're negotiating one of these deals on behalf of a client that you could be or there could be an insinuation of extortion because in essence, they want to get that issue out in front of the jury because it is a form of extortion, right. >> pay me or i'm going to go forward. it's legal well, it's lawful because you're using an attorney and you're not actually saying those words that it's this or that but then all lawyers are really careful to do that when you're negotiating those. so i'm not really sure why davidson isn't admitting that because you have to be careful of that when you are negotiating these types of deals. but that's what they're trying to show. just plant that seed in front of the jury because that's what they're going to argue that look, donald trump was being extorted. it's right before the election. they pay michael cohen paid it off and drilling down on this because trump's

attorney, just ask keep davidson again, keep davidson is the man who was acting a stormy daniels as attorney at this time to say that in 2016, he was going right up to the line without committing extortion davidson responded and said, i don't understand the question, paula. i mean, we knew that they were going to get on your own essentially make keith davidson look bad as he was negotiating these deals and had been commenting on how little money they believe trump had what else stingy, he was worth it and now suddenly there's this surge of interests. so he admitted on the stand during direct the right. she knew this was her opportunity to potentially make money, and of course, he is applying a lot of pressure on michael cohen to get this money. he also knows there's an incentive to pay him before the election. so it is a fine line and like i said earlier, we knew that the defense attorneys we're going to seize on that. >> and one thing that's interesting is trump's demeanor, as this is happening because earlier he was kinda

doing that thing that he did when i was in there where he's kinda closes his eyes for a sustained period of time i'm he's not sleeping. he's just almost not listening. >> when keith davidson took the stand and it was trump's attorney to do the questioning, were told by reporters in the room. >> trump was looking at keith davidson. yeah, i'm sure he wants to hear the answer. so this these are also probably easier for him to hear because these are things that could be good for his case issues that they are raising. and there's probably a part of and that at some level may feel that this was extortion. quite different than what prosecutors are alleging here. and here, davidson agrees that he knew in 2016 you had to be careful not to violate the law prohibiting extortion because karen just said he's aware that there's a line and he's trying not cross it. >> and we also have brian ketchum joining us, a white-collar and criminal defense attorney, who i should know used to represent trump torque manager, paul manafort, who was there as a lot of this was happening and about to potentially about to break as they were trying to keep it out of the public eye. ryan, right now where trump's attorneys are going with this line of questioning. i'm curious your take because keith davidson has

just confirmed is they're talking about how common in agreements our non-disclosure agreements. he confirms in 2012 he was investigated for extortion in connection with a situation involving go get i think it's fascinating testimony, and i think it's fascinating to the extent that you're the viewers here and the public that people following this trial are getting real insight sometimes into how the sausage is made. >> if you will, between lawyers, particularly in a pre a pre complaint, a pretty lawsuit situation because it let's be let's be real about it. it's a little bit like extortion. i'll see you in this will be a public lawsuit or you can pay me and it won't be a lot by lawsuit. >> and so the text messages between mr. cohen and mr. davidson are fascinating to me. >> it's a reminder to myself to be careful what i say in text messages. and it's it's fascinating to see the line, the line you were just talking about between settlement

negotiations and nda and extortion and so that's been fascinating testimony what's happening right now, brian, this update says he is being asked by trump's attorney, you never linked these negotiations to the 2016 election with anyone. >> is that your testimony? >> keith davidson to this line of questioning is pushing back and saying yes i made sure this was when the guidelines that it wasn't extortion, but he seems to be pushing back on the slide of questioning from trump's attorneys i think that's to be expected. >> no lawyer is going to want to be wanted to be insinuated that they engaged in extortion and this case isn't really about whether or not there was extortion. this case was whether or not there was a crime committed by the former president. but mr. trump's lawyers and they're excellent lawyers are doing exactly what they should be doing, which is basically putting mr. davidson

on trial yeah. >> keith davidson, of course, is not the defendant. here. the defendant is seated in there, we're told he is paying much closer attention to davidson's testimony than he was when it was the prosecution questioning keith davidson now that it's trump's attorneys questioning him i wonder where you believe that they're going after this line of questioning about extortion. what do you think would be a natural next step for the defense team? is they're expecting to spend a significant chunk of time questioning keith davidson i think they're going to just hammer this point over and over and over again. and i think that's the right strategy i think it might get a little bit repetitive, but i think that is what you want the jury to really take away and you want his credibility to be an open question, and you want his credibility to be challenged over and over and over again. and i think it's an appropriate strategy. and the strategy i would do well i'll note keith

davidson, i was watching as he first took the stand on tuesday and he was a pretty compelling witness in a sense of describing these interactions that you have with michael cohen. >> he was saying it was clear to him he had to reconcile a statement with the prosecution before they finished earlier where today to go? he said it was clear to him that the source of the funds ultimately it was going to be from donald j. trump. today he was saying that he believed it was michael cohen's money and the prosecution said, well, that's not what you argued to us or what you testified to us on tuesday right you got to rehabilitate your witness with that instead of inconsistency. >> so i understand why they did that and it's difficult though to change your statement in front of a jury will see what the jury makes it that they have been paying very close attention by and ketchum. >> thank you for joining us and

we are now learning that trump's attorney is pressing keith davidson on whether he helped someone get paid in connection shin would that story they're talking about a lindsay lohan story and a tmd story about her polaroid. i wasn't quite expecting lindsay lohan to get brought up at the first criminal trial of a former president. >> but here we are. yeah. was not on my bingo card either, but clue they're trying to establish davidson as being a bit of an opportunist. this is the game he plays. this is how he makes money profiting off of this tabloid culture. and people were in a situation like lindsay lohan not in a very vulnerable position. and it appears that they're now going through other instances as well. i think we're going to hear a lot of other really surprising names about to come up. >> what's the point of bringing up whole cogen and lindsay lohan. i mean, what is the pattern that trump's attorneys, qarrah, do you believe are trying to establish here with this line of question, i think they're trying to dirty up keith davidson and make him look like he's somebody who goes out and extorts people on

behalf of his clients. right. and i think what he's he keeps entering. >> i don't recall to six questions so far from a male beauvais i mean, of course you're going to remember whether or not you represented a celebrity like lindsay lohan or whole cogen or whoever they're talking about. >> that doesn't that that's the kind of thing that they're gonna be able to say, oh, come on, this guy's a liar. it's not like they're talking about some when you don't know, you're going to remember if this person you represented or that you were involved in was a particular celebrity and once again, they're going to try to paint donald trump is the victim of extortion and victim of political persecution, but isn't, isn't this keith davidson thing, i mean, you could go look at keith davidson website right now. i just looked at it the other day and he has pictures of a lot of this that he has represented and karen mcdougal's picture was on there for a time. i don't know if it's still as she was unhappy with the fact that was on there. i mean, this is kind of qt davidson's lane. i taught people went to him and

he was connected with people like stormy daniels. yeah. and trump's lawyers here are arguing that you weren't trying to secure a great deal unnecessarily for your client to do the best thing by her you were trying to get as much money for yourself in addition to your client when you knew someone in this case, then candidate trump was in an especially volvo normal position, may go back to his direct where he talked about how he knew stormy daniels story was suddenly more valuable after access hollywood tape. >> and while he says that he testified here on cross, that no one talk directly about it as impacting the election they do later on in the transaction there, this text messages. >> now the defense has moved on to here we go. davidson's work with clients who are paid by charlie sheen, asking whether he took steps that caused sheen to pay his client, again, bringing up more examples of how davidson may have targeted people for money. we asserted there were some tortious activity committed and valid settlements that were expected. now, the defense attorney jabs at davidson, your memory seems a little little fuzzy around some of these issues you in karen were just talking about that, how he keeps saying i

cannot recall. so now, i'm only the undermining his credibility in terms of the type of work he did and whether it was extortion, but also the fact that he's not being completely upfront about exactly how some of these deals with other celebrities came to. i mean russia, this is getting to be a really testy lot of questions shooting, not that we thought it was going to be all roses and angels are various, whatever you want to say. >> i mean, davidson is responding to that. he said 1,500 clients that these issues were for many years ago. he's trying to defend himself and also trump's attorney was asking him about supposed 90 day bar suspension that keith davidson was under acute david since said he did not recall that in trump's attorneys seemed to be skeptical of that. trump's attorney says, quote, were both lawyers. i'm not here to play lawyer games with you. the judge judge marchand sustains an objection to that remark. i mean, this is getting contentious i mean, all they're trying to do here and it's quite effective is if they can make him out to be shady and someone not to believe than any

points that the prosecution scored with this witness. >> they're going to say, you can't believe him either. he's another liar. he's shady. he says he doesn't remember these things. of course, you're going to remember if you negotiated something on behalf of a celebrity or that you were held that you were suspended your bar license was suspended. any lawyer would remember that. so he's not like he's saying no, it didn't happen. he's saying i don't recall. that shake their head and say i'm not sure we can believe and davidson is pushing back saying, i'm giving you truthful answers that i'm not going to discuss confidential answers, checking out the trump or the client attorney privilege. >> i mean, i think it's important to keep in mind here that what trump's team knows, they're only gold their mind, they just need one juror, two, essentially sayyed would them here. >> that's exactly right. and i think you're gonna see them do this with many of the witnesses. i mean, the idea that you can't talk about certain aspects of agreements because of your data, your

former client. okay. but not remembering a bar suspension. now, attorneys are approaching the bench talking to the judge for a sidebar after the defense attorney asked judge to instruct david's to answer a question about whether he remembers charlie sheen paying his clients will sue the judge does here. >> it also it seems to be going back to the david pecker tactic, the technique that trump's attorneys use, they are where they brought up mark wahlberg. >> they brought up arnold schwarzenegger. they were basically saying this is something that rich people do. this is commonplace. now they're bringing up charlie sheen, lindsay lohan, whole cogen as well. >> davidson is in a bit of between a rock and a hard place because these if he did do these things on behalf of his clients, it's to sign ndas. he is under not only an attorney-client privilege, but a contractual obligation to not reveal these things on the stand, yet he's being asked these questions. he shouldn't be saying, i don't recall. he should be saying i can't answer that question or attorney-client privilege or something, but to say, i don't recall isn't really being

honest or truthful potentially if that's it seems to be where they're going with this. >> yeah, we are watching trump's attorneys now cross-examining keith davidson. you're trying to undermine the credibility of someone who could be a critical witness for the prosecution. we are watching all of it very closely inside a courtroom that is turning quite hostile right now, much more with cnn's a special live coverage ahead. >> every piece of evidence tells a story how would really hundred jesse l. >> martin sunday's at nine on cnn it's just your mother and i went different thing which is why we got sling tv so we can watch live and free tv on one app that's right thing is really keeping his family together. you have no idea? i had no idea why choose asleep number smart beds can it keep me warm when i'm cold? wait,

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mr. donald trump the 45th president of the united states, and the presumptive republican presidential nominee is paying close attention important today is his lawyers cross-examine a key prosecution witness. >> are reporters inside the courtroom tell us that mr. trump was leaning forward is tear turned toward the witness stand. you're watching cnn's federal live coverage of donald trump's hush money cover up trial trump's attorneys, right now are trying to destroy the credibility of this witness. his name is keith davidson. he's the onetime lawyer for adult film actress and director of stormy daniel's and 1998 playboy playmate of the year. current mcdougal both of whom were allegedly paid hush money for keeping quiet about their liaison with mr. trump, alleged liaison mr. trump denies them. trump's attorney, emil beauvais is right now running the jury through a laundry list of clients with whom davidson dealt on a routine basis, ones that perhaps to some witnesses, to some jury members, to some of you out there are somewhat cd situations bringing up the davidson was at one point

suspended from the bar and getting davidson to answer. i don't recall at least half a dozen times. all right. so let us tip toe through the tulips of mr. davidson's client list here, if we can just to help illustrate what exactly the defense is getting at, they talk about bove asked davidson about a tmz story regarding lindsay lohan treatment at a rehab facility hulk hogan sex tape he's bringing up davidson's work related to a t tia is a tot tequila sex kp ti lot tequila sex tape and his work with a man that beauvais referred to as a quote, sex tape broker. the first time i have used that phrase in my entire life. but they bringing up a $2,000,000 payment made to davidson's client from charlie sheen. davidson says, i don't recall to that beauvais jabs at davidson, your memory seems a little fuzzy around some of these issues. they're going in

and out of issues like this bove a pushing davidson to discuss chines settlement with a woman named capri anderson and on and on what is the point of all this to mean? anyone is entitled to an attorney and it seems like mr. davidson has created a niche firm for himself for show two points, one visceral, one technical. the visceral point is donald trump's lawyers want the jury to be disgusted. yes. by this guy. they want they want the jury to be repelled by keith davidson, by stormy daniels, by karen mcdougal. and they want to make the point that this happened because keith davidson, they're going to argue is an opportunist. and this is the technical point the timing is important here. the alleged affairs with both mcdougal and stormy daniel's happened a decade before 2005 and and 2006. 2007, right. >> one of the arguments the prosecutor is going to make his gee, why would donald trump, michael cohen, only care about paying them off in september and october of 201610 years later, the answer they're

gonna say is because the election was looming a counter to that is going to be the reason they paid in september, october 2016 is because that's when this opportunist i'll say it nicely pounced and came to us in a threatening way, the way he did with many other clients. i think that's where prosecuted work. trump's lawyers are going with this. yeah. >> i think something prosecutors like to say as this locked immoral point, is that you don't we did not pick the witnesses here. >> the defendant did. and this is just who we're with and we're building our case around. well, defense attorneys rightly pounce on that is sort of empty moralizing because look, no, these are pretty rotten guys and i think there are the defense can't say the words porn star in sex tape and not because it distracts the jury from the mechanics of how contracts are structured and what counts as consideration and so on. if you make the defence, pardon me? if you make the jerry think about sex tapes, important stars, and this sort of distasteful man whose brokering at all, it hurts the prosecution and somehow we have meant managed

to make a through 44 or 43 rather previous presidents that never had any reason to deal with a man like keith davidson and attorney like keith, things that we know we know we know. >> that's right. >> our end director and playboy playmate of the year and a guy who brokers deals for the likes of whole cogen and capri anderson, whoever that is, et cetera, et cetera but guess what? that's the world of donald trump. that's not the world of michael cohen. >> i would that's the argument i'm so i would stipulate that the jury's know about the access hollywood tape by this time, i am not sure that donald trump's reputation in 2024 is going to be a big surprise to

then they know this. i think the other thing that is they're doing here is in crosses, their normalizing this kind of behavior deal. and they're saying, look, all of these other people have done this. all of these celebrities have now this and guess what none of them were running for president. a lot of people do this for other reasons. >> so when selecting the jury and important series of questions were, what are your politics? what do you know about donald trump and so on? because it's not relevant to the jury, they would not have asked the jury, what do you know about charlie sheen or too tequila? or how cogen and there are probably jurors who are disgusted by the nature of this conduct here. but it's perfectly fair game for them to be asked about and sort of prey on biased jurors and obviously the burden of proof and the burden of the prosecutors have when when all is said and done is to convince the jury that

maybe this is normal behavior for a celebrity. and in this case, donald trump equals charlie sheen equals whoever else was involved in this. with this broker but that's not what he used it for. he used it to help us election. >> so one of the other things that the defense is bringing up when it comes to keith davidson is the whole legality when it comes to his business of to simplify it in the way that the defense is characterizing it oh, look at this really awful thing. i have it'd be a shame if i release this to the public. maybe you and i can have some sort of deal. and how is that different from extortion and right now but emil beauvais is noting that mr. davidson was involved in hulk hogan tape coverage. remember there was a sex tape regarding how cogen sex tapes beauvais asking if the experience with all of this

gave him a familiarity with extortion law. perhaps i don't know. davidson says, but just to recap over what was going on davidson confirmed and investigators were in close proximity listening to his conversations with whole cogen representatives, beauvais shows davidson a report from the tampa ball police department related to the investigation and apparently there were concerns expressed about extortion the report, though davidson notes, i was never charged with anything. this is the context by which beauvais asks, did this experience give him familiar, familiarity with extortion lawn again, kasie hunt put on your juror hat right now, if you would. i don't have an actual physical one, but an imaginary one if you next time, i will. next time, i'll order one amazon. and just if you're sitting in the jury, what are you thinking as you as the defense is talking to this guy about his business that also got him into proximity to the world of

donald trump i'll be honest, jake, i'm kind of thinking, what is any of this and how did we get here as a country? >> like, i mean, what do you even do with all of this my, my my current question is the extortion law. >> i'm curious from your guys perspectives, what what portion it's a fine line it is sort of using force or threat to extract something from someone else. well, what are these types of arrangements? while you're extracting something for money but is there a threat involved? and there is actually a fine line and that's the defense's threading this needle quite well by saying that wait a second. you're talking about threatening someone getting money for them and having them not do something house that not extortion. and i think for for exactly the point you're making, casey, it's sort of planning and the jurors had the vistas, if not illegal sort of flirting with the line and stepping up to the line and he even says the real questions about whether i might have been charged, but no, i wasn't everything. i wasn't charged in trump's attorney right now. emil bove, eight circling back

to karen mcdougal karen mcdougal, the 1998 playboy playmate of the year, who alleges that she had a ten to 11 months long relationship between 2006 and 2007 with donald trump trump's attorneys now highlighting what some might call sorted dealings of this prosecution witness, including and that he was targeted by an fbi sting operation. we're going to have much more from our reporters inside the courtroom giving us all these real-time updates during this process examination, you're watching cnn special live coverage. we're going to squeeze in a very quick break. we'll be right back the trump hush money trial gavel to gavel coverage, the weight only cnn can bring it to you. legal insight, expert analysis, and real-time updates live from the courtroom follow the facts, follow the testimony follows. cnn, these underwear are period proof and sneeze proof and swept their leak-proof underwear from knicks, comfy and confident protection that field, just

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questions you may have call now and we'll come to you 808 to one 4,000 welcome back to cnn semester live coverage of donald trump's hush money and cover up trial tele tequila, whole cogen, charlie sheen in lindsay lohan, all names i'm not sure any of us had on our donald trump trial bingo cards heading into today. but all names we have heard on cross-examination as the defense attorneys for donald trump tried to undermine the credibility of a key prosecution witness. one man named keith davidson. davidson, the onetime attorney for both adult film actress and star stormy daniel's and playboy 1998 playmate of the year, karen mcdougal. and it is karen mcdougal's deal that they are going through right now? now, emil beauvais, the trump attorney, talking to keith davidson, karen mcdougal, and stormy daniels, attorney about the deal. but they asking davidson about the settlement deal. he tried to negotiate someone seeking 100 million

from many pack it out. >> anyway moving on. davidson says, when trump was is sending in the polls, a former friend of karen mcdougal attempted to publicize mick google's alleged almost years-long affair on the press. obey returns to how davidson retained karen mcdougal is a client noting he was referred by her brother-in-law, davidson's former client, bove, a questioning. davidson about how mcdougal's brother-in-law and another man who provided security. were paid in the agreement. they're going into this. again, we have heard from previous testimony that karen mcdougal actually did not want her story out there, but she did also want money. >> she perfect solution for somebody who does not want to tell her story. but once they get paid, this line of cross-examination goes to the question of who started it. and what trump's lawyers are trying to establish now is this was not donald trump and michael cohen contacting karen mcdougal or stormy daniel's

saying hey we've got this election coming out, we need you to be quiet. it happened the other way around that mcdougal through this network, including this lawyer, keith davidson, including her brother-in-law they approached the trump people and said, we've got this thing that might be an issue for you, and that's how this started. that matters to the jareh also matters in terms of who chose this timing right before the election, but isn't ultimately the question not so much about mcdougal, but about stormy daniels it comes to the question of whether or not he was trying to hide something because if it's very, very poor point the charges here, i'm not relate to karen mcdougal's that payments that karen mcdougal, the charges relate to the payment to stormy daniels, the one leads directly into the next mcdougal. the payments to mcdougal lead time-wise within days into the deal with stormy, i would just add one more thing to that. that stormy daniel's also comes forward publicly with her story and something i'm certain the defensible point out is that well, this is another person who has an incentive to come up and speak ford and

whether it's make a buck off of this or just attack the defendant. and it sort of speaks to her credibility a little bit. and i think it's something they'll pick on her rebel. the karen mcdougal case is an interesting one because it does contrast with the stormy daniels case, stormy daniel's case was first of all, donald trump denies them both. we should note that upfront. stormy daniels cases and alleged interlude of ours if we're point that they're trying to say that we're being generous, denying an affair and that was a correct. right. she was not lying in that statement because she wasn't tonight. there wasn't an affair we have lost. there wasn't around me. a number of times there wasn't relations are 11 wasn't a relationship, although i do think while they were allegedly canoodling, there was some watching shark week that was happening, but the karen mcdougal way too much actually about that believe me, this is not what i signed up for, but reporter all right. i thought it was going to be talking much more about policy anyway, the

karen mcdougal situation lasting ten to 11 months wasn't alleged relationship and she said she was in love with him. >> she says she was in love with him. and it is it is different and he has said she was a nice girl, which she was nice. so i do think there are two other things in keith davidson, some of this has gone by very quickly, but two things worth mentioning when he talks about charlie sheen, that's $2 he doesn't verify that, but it chose this is relatively little in comparisons, much more cnn special live coverage in minutes as a key prosecution witness is still being cross-examined by donald trump's attorney. stick with us. we'll be right back. >> a florida man is hospitalized, infected with anthrax sunday. this became the bureau there's number more crying to sell. >> how it really happened with jesse l. martin's sunday at nine on cnn?

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